Steve came up, as always, with a brilliant reflection on yesterday's events.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/0,7371,1524016,00.html

BiF

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 17:53:25 +0200, "Bill Again" 
wrote:


>Steve came up, as always, with a brilliant reflection on yesterday's events.
>
>http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/0,7371,1524016,00.html
>
>BiF 


I dont get it.


Oak<flummoxed>

wrote in message 
news:2t9tc1p36vq9ms6461btn37gsghonuq50c@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 17:53:25 +0200, "Bill Again" 
> wrote:
>
>>Steve came up, as always, with a brilliant reflection on yesterday's 
>>events.
>>
>>http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/0,7371,1524016,00.html
>>
>>BiF
>
> I dont get it.
>
>
> Oak<flummoxed>


Me neither.

George wrote:

>  wrote in message
> news:2t9tc1p36vq9ms6461btn37gsghonuq50c@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 17:53:25 +0200, "Bill Again" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Steve came up, as always, with a brilliant reflection on yesterday's
>>> events.
>>>
>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/0,7371,1524016,00.html
>>>
>>> BiF
>>
>> I dont get it.
>>
>>
>> Oak<flummoxed>
>
> Me neither.


The circle with a bar across it is the symbol of london underground.

It's a play on images of WWII cemetaries with rows of tombstones , some 
topped with crosses , others with the star of david.

-- 
Alex

Hermes: "We can't afford that! Especially not Zoidberg!"
Zoidberg: "They took away my credit cards!"

www.drzoidberg.co.uk    www.ebayfaq.co.uk

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 19:01:05 +0100, "Dr Zoidberg"
<AlexNOOOOO!!!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk> wrote:


> George wrote:
>>  wrote in message
>> news:2t9tc1p36vq9ms6461btn37gsghonuq50c@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 17:53:25 +0200, "Bill Again" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Steve came up, as always, with a brilliant reflection on yesterday's
>>>> events.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/0,7371,1524016,00.html
>>>>
>>>> BiF
>>>
>>> I dont get it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Oak<flummoxed>
>>
>> Me neither.
>
>The circle with a bar across it is the symbol of london underground.
>
>It's a play on images of WWII cemetaries with rows of tombstones , some 
>topped with crosses , others with the star of david.


In a British context, it is just a normal cemetery. 

Commonwealth (rather than US) war graves in Europe generally have
identical plain white headstones, with a religous symbol carved if
appropriate: 
http://www.firstworldwar.com/today/graphics/02tynecot09.jpg
US:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cambridgeshire/360/madingley3.shtml

-- 
Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 20:55:54 +0100, in uk.current-events.terrorism Arthur
Figgis  wrote:


>>It's a play on images of WWII cemetaries with rows of tombstones , some 
>>topped with crosses , others with the star of david.
>
>In a British context, it is just a normal cemetery. 
>
>Commonwealth (rather than US) war graves in Europe generally have
>identical plain white headstones, with a religous symbol carved if
>appropriate: 


What was that bit (probably a conspiracy theory) I heard several years ago
about a stone called "Jacob's Pillow" under the throne of England?

"FACE"  wrote in message 
news:ufotc15idmmoek3b50pekq6sq7ldj9ogpq@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 20:55:54 +0100, in uk.current-events.terrorism Arthur
> Figgis  wrote:
>
>>>It's a play on images of WWII cemetaries with rows of tombstones , some
>>>topped with crosses , others with the star of david.
>>
>>In a British context, it is just a normal cemetery.
>>
>>Commonwealth (rather than US) war graves in Europe generally have
>>identical plain white headstones, with a religous symbol carved if
>>appropriate:
>
> What was that bit (probably a conspiracy theory) I heard several years ago
> about a stone called "Jacob's Pillow" under the throne of England?
>


The Stone of Scone,

"FACE"  wrote in message 
news:ufotc15idmmoek3b50pekq6sq7ldj9ogpq@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 20:55:54 +0100, in uk.current-events.terrorism Arthur
> Figgis  wrote:
>
>>>It's a play on images of WWII cemetaries with rows of tombstones , some
>>>topped with crosses , others with the star of david.
>>
>>In a British context, it is just a normal cemetery.
>>
>>Commonwealth (rather than US) war graves in Europe generally have
>>identical plain white headstones, with a religous symbol carved if
>>appropriate:
>
> What was that bit (probably a conspiracy theory) I heard several years ago
> about a stone called "Jacob's Pillow" under the throne of England?
>


No conspiracy theory. Merely theories, legends, fables and so forth.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is a good description....

[The Stone] is known by many names, Stone of Scone, Jacob's Pillow, the 
Coronation Stone, Jacob's Pillar and even the Liath Fail. Its history is the 
subject of great debate as would be the history of any item of such 
significance to people and religion.

http://www.tartans.com/articles/stoneofscone.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This a better story, but somewhat out of date, but after three millennia 
what is a couple of years.

http://members.aol.com/Skyelander/stone.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BiF

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 16:42:32 -0400, FACE
 wrote:



>What was that bit (probably a conspiracy theory) I heard several years ago
>about a stone called "Jacob's Pillow" under the throne of England?


Dunno, never heard of it. That's (was, it's back in North Britain now)
the stone of Scone/Destiny? 

<Google> 
Wow, pyramids, lost tribes, the lot. Good stuff :-)

Ah, it's the same thing. Scottorum malleus got it off the Scots who'd
got it from Ireland, who'd somehow got it from Jacob-as-in-the-ladder.
 
http://asis.com/~stag/stone.html etc etc
"The coronation stone which sits in Westminster Abbey, England, is the
coronation stone of the Hebrew nation called Israelites. This stone
was named Beth-el (house of God) by the patriarch Israel (sometimes
called Jacob) roughly 2000 BC and remained with his descendents. It
travelled with them for forty years in the wilderness, supplying their
water, and was preserved and brought to Ireland in 583 BC by the
prophet Jeremiah; eventually being transferred to Scotland, then
England."

More http://www.tartans.com/articles/stoneofscone.html
-- 
Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 22:24:08 +0100, in uk.current-events.terrorism Arthur
Figgis  wrote:


>On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 16:42:32 -0400, FACE
> wrote:
>
>
>>What was that bit (probably a conspiracy theory) I heard several years ago
>>about a stone called "Jacob's Pillow" under the throne of England?
>
>Dunno, never heard of it. That's (was, it's back in North Britain now)
>the stone of Scone/Destiny? 
>
><Google> 
>Wow, pyramids, lost tribes, the lot. Good stuff :-)
>
>Ah, it's the same thing. Scottorum malleus got it off the Scots who'd
>got it from Ireland, who'd somehow got it from Jacob-as-in-the-ladder.
> 
>http://asis.com/~stag/stone.html etc etc
>"The coronation stone which sits in Westminster Abbey, England, is the
>coronation stone of the Hebrew nation called Israelites. This stone
>was named Beth-el (house of God) by the patriarch Israel (sometimes
>called Jacob) roughly 2000 BC and remained with his descendents. It
>travelled with them for forty years in the wilderness, supplying their
>water, and was preserved and brought to Ireland in 583 BC by the
>prophet Jeremiah; eventually being transferred to Scotland, then
>England."
>
>More http://www.tartans.com/articles/stoneofscone.html


Thanks, Arthur.  I thought it was something along that line -- to bless the
King or somesuch --  but knew no details.  Israel/Jacob, eh?  Didn't know
that either.

And wot is it we got, eh?  We got enough splinters of the true cross to
build a freakin' Ark!

FACE

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 23:15:41 +0200, in uk.current-events.terrorism "Bill
Again"  wrote:


>
>
>
>"FACE"  wrote in message 
>news:ufotc15idmmoek3b50pekq6sq7ldj9ogpq@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 20:55:54 +0100, in uk.current-events.terrorism Arthur
>> Figgis  wrote:
>>
>>>>It's a play on images of WWII cemetaries with rows of tombstones , some
>>>>topped with crosses , others with the star of david.
>>>
>>>In a British context, it is just a normal cemetery.
>>>
>>>Commonwealth (rather than US) war graves in Europe generally have
>>>identical plain white headstones, with a religous symbol carved if
>>>appropriate:
>>
>> What was that bit (probably a conspiracy theory) I heard several years ago
>> about a stone called "Jacob's Pillow" under the throne of England?
>>
>
>No conspiracy theory. Merely theories, legends, fables and so forth.
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>This is a good description....
>
>[The Stone] is known by many names, Stone of Scone, Jacob's Pillow, the 
>Coronation Stone, Jacob's Pillar and even the Liath Fail. Its history is the 
>subject of great debate as would be the history of any item of such 
>significance to people and religion.
>
>http://www.tartans.com/articles/stoneofscone.html
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>This a better story, but somewhat out of date, but after three millennia 
>what is a couple of years.
>
>http://members.aol.com/Skyelander/stone.html
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>BiF 
>

Thanks, I'll check these out later.  That there Lilith Fail looks like some
of that really Olde Engliffh stuff.

FACE

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 18:29:31 -0400, FACE
 wrote:


>And wot is it we got, eh?  We got enough splinters of the true cross to
>build a freakin' Ark!


Probably bought by the ancestors of the people who think a retired TOP
OFFICIAL really does need their URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL ASSISTANCE.
-- 
Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK

"Arthur Figgis"  wrote in message 
news:bultc1hmi9igmj822ru62dafccoaq0jcpb@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 19:01:05 +0100, "Dr Zoidberg"
> <AlexNOOOOO!!!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> George wrote:
>>>  wrote in message
>>> news:2t9tc1p36vq9ms6461btn37gsghonuq50c@4ax.com...
>>>> On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 17:53:25 +0200, "Bill Again" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Steve came up, as always, with a brilliant reflection on yesterday's
>>>>> events.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/0,7371,1524016,00.html
>>>>>
>>>>> BiF
>>>>
>>>> I dont get it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oak<flummoxed>
>>>
>>> Me neither.
>>
>>The circle with a bar across it is the symbol of london underground.
>>
>>It's a play on images of WWII cemetaries with rows of tombstones , some
>>topped with crosses , others with the star of david.
>
> In a British context, it is just a normal cemetery.
>
> Commonwealth (rather than US) war graves in Europe generally have
> identical plain white headstones, with a religous symbol carved if
> appropriate:
> http://www.firstworldwar.com/today/graphics/02tynecot09.jpg
> US:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/cambridgeshire/360/madingley3.shtml
>
> -- 
> Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK


Rather than US?  Take a look at these:

http://www.abmc.gov/abmc2.htm

"Dr Zoidberg" <AlexNOOOOO!!!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:3j7t6bFoh2q4U1@individual.net...

> George wrote:
>>  wrote in message
>> news:2t9tc1p36vq9ms6461btn37gsghonuq50c@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 17:53:25 +0200, "Bill Again" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Steve came up, as always, with a brilliant reflection on yesterday's
>>>> events.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/0,7371,1524016,00.html
>>>>
>>>> BiF
>>>
>>> I dont get it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Oak<flummoxed>
>>
>> Me neither.
>
> The circle with a bar across it is the symbol of london underground.
>
> It's a play on images of WWII cemetaries with rows of tombstones , some 
> topped with crosses , others with the star of david.
>
> -- 
> Alex
>
> Hermes: "We can't afford that! Especially not Zoidberg!"
> Zoidberg: "They took away my credit cards!"
>
> www.drzoidberg.co.uk    www.ebayfaq.co.uk
>


Thank you.  I didn't understand the symbol either.  You're right--excellent 
drawing.

Kate

You mean, the circle and bar ain't for the Moon-god, Allah?

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 23:54:16 GMT, " George"
 wrote:


>
>"Arthur Figgis"  wrote in message 
>news:bultc1hmi9igmj822ru62dafccoaq0jcpb@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 19:01:05 +0100, "Dr Zoidberg"
>> <AlexNOOOOO!!!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk> wrote:


>>>It's a play on images of WWII cemetaries with rows of tombstones , some
>>>topped with crosses , others with the star of david.
>>
>> In a British context, it is just a normal cemetery.
>>
>> Commonwealth (rather than US) war graves in Europe generally have
>> identical plain white headstones, with a religous symbol carved if
>> appropriate:
>> http://www.firstworldwar.com/today/graphics/02tynecot09.jpg
>> US:
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/cambridgeshire/360/madingley3.shtml
>>
>
>Rather than US?  Take a look at these:
>
>http://www.abmc.gov/abmc2.htm 


Yes, that looks pretty much like "rows of tombstones , some topped
with crosses" to me. Compare them with typical Commonwealth ones,
which aren't topped with crosses:
http://www.greatwar.co.uk/westfront/ypsalient/cemeteries/brcemyp.htm

-- 
Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK

"Arthur Figgis"  wrote in message 
news:pa60d1dv3fp33nvuq3e65s74qip0dr2vtu@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 23:54:16 GMT, " George"
>  wrote:
>
>>
>>"Arthur Figgis"  wrote in message
>>news:bultc1hmi9igmj822ru62dafccoaq0jcpb@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 19:01:05 +0100, "Dr Zoidberg"
>>> <AlexNOOOOO!!!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>>>It's a play on images of WWII cemetaries with rows of tombstones , some
>>>>topped with crosses , others with the star of david.
>>>
>>> In a British context, it is just a normal cemetery.
>>>
>>> Commonwealth (rather than US) war graves in Europe generally have
>>> identical plain white headstones, with a religous symbol carved if
>>> appropriate:
>>> http://www.firstworldwar.com/today/graphics/02tynecot09.jpg
>>> US:
>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/cambridgeshire/360/madingley3.shtml
>>>
>>
>>Rather than US?  Take a look at these:
>>
>>http://www.abmc.gov/abmc2.htm
>
> Yes, that looks pretty much like "rows of tombstones , some topped
> with crosses" to me. Compare them with typical Commonwealth ones,
> which aren't topped with crosses:
> http://www.greatwar.co.uk/westfront/ypsalient/cemeteries/brcemyp.htm
>
> -- 
> Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK


I don't know.  That second picture (the black and white one) looks like 
there are quite a few with crosses to me.

On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 19:02:05 GMT, " George"
 wrote:


>I don't know.  That second picture (the black and white one) looks like 
>there are quite a few with crosses to me. 


The cemeteries have one main, free-standing, cross, not on a grave,
and similar crosses also appear in some civilian cemeteries with war
graves. But the gravestones themselves aren't cross-shaped as many US
ones are. The stones can have crosses (or whatever) carved on them,
with the name, unit, date etc, but they are a standard shape and size.
-- 
Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK

"Arthur Figgis"  wrote in message 
news:rvd0d1tjv8k2doqdktnrj3as673fq0bdue@4ax.com...

> On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 19:02:05 GMT, " George"
>  wrote:
>
>>I don't know.  That second picture (the black and white one) looks like
>>there are quite a few with crosses to me.
>
> The cemeteries have one main, free-standing, cross, not on a grave,
> and similar crosses also appear in some civilian cemeteries with war
> graves. But the gravestones themselves aren't cross-shaped as many US
> ones are. The stones can have crosses (or whatever) carved on them,
> with the name, unit, date etc, but they are a standard shape and size.
> -- 
> Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK



Um.  Arthur.  Look at the second (black and white) image on this link:

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/westfront/ypsalient/cemeteries/BR%20cemies/essexfm.htm

There certainly appear to be graves with crosses as headstones.  But I 
won't argue the point.  You know more about British cemetaries than I do.

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 00:05:54 GMT, " George"
 wrote:

>Um.  Arthur.  Look at the second (black and white) image on this link:
>
>http://www.greatwar.co.uk/westfront/ypsalient/cemeteries/BR%20cemies/essexfm.htm


You could of course try reading the caption:

"The black and white photograph (2) is a contemporary [ie 1918] photo
looking to the south-east showing original grave markers. The
shattered trees behind the cemetery are on the western Ieper-Ijser
canal bank. The colour photo (3) was taken in 2000 from the same
viewpoint." ... and shows standard stones. 



>There certainly appear to be graves with crosses as headstones.  But I 
>won't argue the point.  You know more about British cemetaries than I do. 


They are not just British, but Commonwealth. The difference is still
very important.

-- 
Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK

"Arthur Figgis"  wrote in message 
news:i1p1d1tjf2s6077m6edgfvr1al31ojtp3o@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 00:05:54 GMT, " George"
>  wrote:
>>Um.  Arthur.  Look at the second (black and white) image on this link:
>>
>>http://www.greatwar.co.uk/westfront/ypsalient/cemeteries/BR%20cemies/essexfm.htm
>
> You could of course try reading the caption:
>
> "The black and white photograph (2) is a contemporary [ie 1918] photo
> looking to the south-east showing original grave markers. The
> shattered trees behind the cemetery are on the western Ieper-Ijser
> canal bank. The colour photo (3) was taken in 2000 from the same
> viewpoint." ... and shows standard stones.


So you are saying that the crosses sticking up in the cemetary shown in the 
blakc and white phot were replaced?  Why?


>
>>There certainly appear to be graves with crosses as headstones.  But I
>>won't argue the point.  You know more about British cemetaries than I do.
>
> They are not just British, but Commonwealth. The difference is still
> very important.
>
> -- 
> Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK


My question, above, stands.

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 11:26:30 GMT, " George"
 wrote:


>
>"Arthur Figgis"  wrote in message 
>news:i1p1d1tjf2s6077m6edgfvr1al31ojtp3o@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 00:05:54 GMT, " George"
>>  wrote:
>>>Um.  Arthur.  Look at the second (black and white) image on this link:
>>>
>>>http://www.greatwar.co.uk/westfront/ypsalient/cemeteries/BR%20cemies/essexfm.htm
>>
>> You could of course try reading the caption:
>>
>> "The black and white photograph (2) is a contemporary [ie 1918] photo
>> looking to the south-east showing original grave markers. The
>> shattered trees behind the cemetery are on the western Ieper-Ijser
>> canal bank. The colour photo (3) was taken in 2000 from the same
>> viewpoint." ... and shows standard stones.
>
>So you are saying that the crosses sticking up in the cemetary shown in the 
>blakc and white phot were replaced?  Why?


Yes. For the durability of stone permanent monuments compared to
wooden temporary markers; as a result of rebuying the dead in fewer
but larger cemeteries instead of leaving them all close to where they
fell; standardisation of markers for everyone of all religions, races,
ranks, etc etc.

-- 
Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK

"Arthur Figgis"  wrote in message 
news:chn2d1plak6e7momh8c4rk4copkvnitia5@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 11:26:30 GMT, " George"
>  wrote:
>
>>
>>"Arthur Figgis"  wrote in message
>>news:i1p1d1tjf2s6077m6edgfvr1al31ojtp3o@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 00:05:54 GMT, " George"
>>>  wrote:
>>>>Um.  Arthur.  Look at the second (black and white) image on this link:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.greatwar.co.uk/westfront/ypsalient/cemeteries/BR%20cemies/essexfm.htm
>>>
>>> You could of course try reading the caption:
>>>
>>> "The black and white photograph (2) is a contemporary [ie 1918] photo
>>> looking to the south-east showing original grave markers. The
>>> shattered trees behind the cemetery are on the western Ieper-Ijser
>>> canal bank. The colour photo (3) was taken in 2000 from the same
>>> viewpoint." ... and shows standard stones.
>>
>>So you are saying that the crosses sticking up in the cemetary shown in 
>>the
>>blakc and white phot were replaced?  Why?
>
> Yes. For the durability of stone permanent monuments compared to
> wooden temporary markers; as a result of rebuying the dead in fewer
> but larger cemeteries instead of leaving them all close to where they
> fell; standardisation of markers for everyone of all religions, races,
> ranks, etc etc.
>
> -- 
> Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK


Well, I didn't know that they were wooden markers, so I guess I can 
understand why they were replaced.  It hadn't occurred to me that what you 
were referring to were graves that were in scattered locations.  It is good 
to see that these graves are being consolidated and properly interred in 
larger, better maintained cemetaries.  Having said that, I have notived 
that the American cemetaries of soldiers who have died fighting in Europe 
in WWII don't all have the same marker stones.  I was watching "Saving 
Private Ryan" last night, and noticed that during the scenes filmed in the 
cemetary(ies) in France (or maybe Belgium, I'm not sure), that although the 
vast majority of markers were marble crosses, there were others present 
that were made up of the Star of David and other religious symbols.  So I 
suppose that if a family requests a different marker, they can get one.