Went to a few garages this afternoon to find out who does tracking.  When I
asked about warranty on the work done, all but one of them said there was no
warranty as the tracking could be knocked out by hitting a bump, etc.

Needless to say, the garage that would warrant their work (even though it
was only 28 days) got my business.

Would anybody like to comment on why the tracking would be knocked out if
you go over bumps, etc?  I'll bet none of them would be willing to put it in
writing so that I could sue the council for their speed bumps contributing
to it...

Darren

"Darren Jarvis"  wrote in message
news:4c9ye.15993$ZR1.11015@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...

> Went to a few garages this afternoon to find out who does tracking.  When
I
> asked about warranty on the work done, all but one of them said there was
no
> warranty as the tracking could be knocked out by hitting a bump, etc.
>
> Needless to say, the garage that would warrant their work (even though it
> was only 28 days) got my business.
>
> Would anybody like to comment on why the tracking would be knocked out if
> you go over bumps, etc?  I'll bet none of them would be willing to put it
in
> writing so that I could sue the council for their speed bumps contributing
> to it...
>
> Darren
>


Is it groundhog day again?  :-))

Steve

"shazzbat"  wrote in message
news:daboo5$sno$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...

>
> "Darren Jarvis"  wrote in message
> news:4c9ye.15993$ZR1.11015@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
> > Went to a few garages this afternoon to find out who does tracking.
When
> I
> > asked about warranty on the work done, all but one of them said there
was
> no
> > warranty as the tracking could be knocked out by hitting a bump, etc.
> >
> > Needless to say, the garage that would warrant their work (even though
it
> > was only 28 days) got my business.
> >
> > Would anybody like to comment on why the tracking would be knocked out
if
> > you go over bumps, etc?  I'll bet none of them would be willing to put
it
> in
> > writing so that I could sue the council for their speed bumps
contributing
> > to it...
> >
> > Darren
> >
>
> Is it groundhog day again?  :-))
>
> Steve
>


lol  :o)

"Darren Jarvis"  wrote in message 
news:4c9ye.15993$ZR1.11015@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...

> Went to a few garages this afternoon to find out who does tracking.  When 
> I
> asked about warranty on the work done, all but one of them said there was 
> no
> warranty as the tracking could be knocked out by hitting a bump, etc.
>
> Needless to say, the garage that would warrant their work (even though it
> was only 28 days) got my business.
>
> Would anybody like to comment on why the tracking would be knocked out if
> you go over bumps, etc?  I'll bet none of them would be willing to put it 
> in
> writing so that I could sue the council for their speed bumps contributing
> to it...
>
> Darren
>
>


I suspect they are a little loose in their language and really mean hitting 
a bump, e.g. the kerb, with the side of a tyre. I certainly don't see why 
hitting a bump that causes no sideways impact on the tyre should put the 
tracking out.

Rob Graham

"Rob graham"  wrote in message
news:dac72p$j7c$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

>
> "Darren Jarvis"  wrote in message
> news:4c9ye.15993$ZR1.11015@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
> > Went to a few garages this afternoon to find out who does tracking.
When
> > I
> > asked about warranty on the work done, all but one of them said there
was
> > no
> > warranty as the tracking could be knocked out by hitting a bump, etc.
> >
> > Needless to say, the garage that would warrant their work (even though
it
> > was only 28 days) got my business.
> >
> > Would anybody like to comment on why the tracking would be knocked out
if
> > you go over bumps, etc?  I'll bet none of them would be willing to put
it
> > in
> > writing so that I could sue the council for their speed bumps
contributing
> > to it...
> >
> > Darren
> >
> >
>
> I suspect they are a little loose in their language and really mean
hitting
> a bump, e.g. the kerb, with the side of a tyre. I certainly don't see why
> hitting a bump that causes no sideways impact on the tyre should put the
> tracking out.
>
> Rob Graham
>
>


no i can not see why,
but if it is true then i know a lot of cars that must have the tracking out
by about 5inches

> I suspect they are a little loose in their language and really mean 
> hitting a bump, e.g. the kerb, with the side of a tyre. I certainly don't 
> see why hitting a bump that causes no sideways impact on the tyre should 
> put the tracking out.



Strictly speaking, cornering puts a sideways force on the tyre.  However, as 
you adjust the tracking by screwing the trackrod ends in or out on the 
steering rack itself, the tracking should not change from what is was set 
at.  Of course, wear in the rubber bushes and balljoints would mean that the 
tracking could not be set accurately in the first place and it would be 
slightly different every time it were checked.  Also a real hard impact 
could bend the steering or suspension components making it wrong.

The reason I gave the last garage my business is because they were realistic 
about what really affects the tracking and were prepared to recheck/adjust 
FOC if needed within the 28 days.  To me, the garages which offered no such 
comeback either do not understand the principles or don't have faith in 
their own work...

Darren

"Darren Jarvis"  wrote in message
news:bYhye.16381$ZR1.4829@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...

> > I suspect they are a little loose in their language and really mean
> > hitting a bump, e.g. the kerb, with the side of a tyre. I certainly
don't
> > see why hitting a bump that causes no sideways impact on the tyre should
> > put the tracking out.
>
>
> Strictly speaking, cornering puts a sideways force on the tyre.  However,
as
> you adjust the tracking by screwing the trackrod ends in or out on the
> steering rack itself, the tracking should not change from what is was set
> at.  Of course, wear in the rubber bushes and balljoints would mean that
the
> tracking could not be set accurately in the first place and it would be
> slightly different every time it were checked.  Also a real hard impact
> could bend the steering or suspension components making it wrong.
>
> The reason I gave the last garage my business is because they were
realistic
> about what really affects the tracking and were prepared to recheck/adjust
> FOC if needed within the 28 days.  To me, the garages which offered no
such
> comeback either do not understand the principles or don't have faith in
> their own work...
>
> Darren
>
>

or perhaps the garage that offers the free re-check/adjust have no
confidence in their work either, hence the need to re-check it within 28
days ?

Darren Jarvis (dkj255@hotmail.con) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying : 


> However, as you adjust the tracking by screwing the trackrod ends in
> or out on the steering rack itself, the tracking should not change
> from what is was set at.  Of course, wear in the rubber bushes and
> balljoints would mean that the tracking could not be set accurately in
> the first place and it would be slightly different every time it were
> checked.  Also a real hard impact could bend the steering or
> suspension components making it wrong. 


It doesn't take much of a ham-fisted attempt at parking next to a kerb to 
knock tracking out, without bending anything. That's a *good* thing. If the 
TRE didn't slip on the rod, something WOULD bend, and that'd cost more than 
ten minutes to correct. Especially if it cracked and later fractured 
instead of bending...

"Adrian"  wrote in message
news:Xns9689E97E9B95Aadrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170...

> Darren Jarvis (dkj255@hotmail.con) gurgled happily, sounding much like
> they were saying :
>
> > However, as you adjust the tracking by screwing the trackrod ends in
> > or out on the steering rack itself, the tracking should not change
> > from what is was set at.  Of course, wear in the rubber bushes and
> > balljoints would mean that the tracking could not be set accurately in
> > the first place and it would be slightly different every time it were
> > checked.  Also a real hard impact could bend the steering or
> > suspension components making it wrong.
>
> It doesn't take much of a ham-fisted attempt at parking next to a kerb to
> knock tracking out, without bending anything. That's a *good* thing. If
the
> TRE didn't slip on the rod, something WOULD bend, and that'd cost more
than
> ten minutes to correct. Especially if it cracked and later fractured
> instead of bending...


The track rod end slips on the rod nowadays? When did that start then, last
one I saw was threaded on to the rod and fitted with a locknut.

Steve

"shazzbat"  wrote in message
news:dacec2$kgr$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...

>
> "Adrian"  wrote in message
> news:Xns9689E97E9B95Aadrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170...
> > Darren Jarvis (dkj255@hotmail.con) gurgled happily, sounding much like
> > they were saying :
> >
> > > However, as you adjust the tracking by screwing the trackrod ends in
> > > or out on the steering rack itself, the tracking should not change
> > > from what is was set at.  Of course, wear in the rubber bushes and
> > > balljoints would mean that the tracking could not be set accurately in
> > > the first place and it would be slightly different every time it were
> > > checked.  Also a real hard impact could bend the steering or
> > > suspension components making it wrong.
> >
> > It doesn't take much of a ham-fisted attempt at parking next to a kerb
to
> > knock tracking out, without bending anything. That's a *good* thing. If
> the
> > TRE didn't slip on the rod, something WOULD bend, and that'd cost more
> than
> > ten minutes to correct. Especially if it cracked and later fractured
> > instead of bending...
>
> The track rod end slips on the rod nowadays? When did that start then,
last
> one I saw was threaded on to the rod and fitted with a locknut.
>
> Steve
>
>


hmm  i did see a peddle car without threads on the ends.........do this
count ;0)

"Adrian"  wrote in message
news:Xns9689E97E9B95Aadrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170...

> Darren Jarvis (dkj255@hotmail.con) gurgled happily, sounding much like
> they were saying :
>
> > However, as you adjust the tracking by screwing the trackrod ends in
> > or out on the steering rack itself, the tracking should not change
> > from what is was set at.  Of course, wear in the rubber bushes and
> > balljoints would mean that the tracking could not be set accurately in
> > the first place and it would be slightly different every time it were
> > checked.  Also a real hard impact could bend the steering or
> > suspension components making it wrong.
>
> It doesn't take much of a ham-fisted attempt at parking next to a kerb to
> knock tracking out, without bending anything. That's a *good* thing. If
the
> TRE didn't slip on the rod, something WOULD bend,


TRE do not slip on rods. What nonsense to suggest they do.
If you don't believe that, have a look at some cars with frontal damage in
breakers yards. IME you wont find any where the TRE has slipped on the rod.
Even those with mangled front suspension.
Mike.

"Darren Jarvis"  wrote in message 
news:bYhye.16381$ZR1.4829@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...

>> I suspect they are a little loose in their language and really mean 
>> hitting a bump, e.g. the kerb, with the side of a tyre. I certainly don't 
>> see why hitting a bump that causes no sideways impact on the tyre should 
>> put the tracking out.
>
>
> Strictly speaking, cornering puts a sideways force on the tyre.


Yes it does, but from the bottom of the tyre where it has minimal effect on 
the steering levers and joints. The sort of force that puts tracking out 
comes from further up the tyre, such as when the kerb is hit.

I have to say, I can't see why this should put tracking out unless it's 
severe enough to bend something, but it evidently does.

Rob

Rob graham wrote:


> I have to say, I can't see why this should put tracking out unless it's 
> severe enough to bend something, but it evidently does.


Does it really? Or is tracking just a big con by tyre places to get
20quid for doing fsck all at best and messing things up at worst?

John

A while ago I calculated how many turns of the track rod thread would cover 
the manufacturer's allowed range of toe-in, it was something like 1/3 of a 
turn on my car, so perhaps these kerb knocks have to less damage than we 
think to affect the tracking.

Mike G (metier@lycos.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying : 


> TRE do not slip on rods. What nonsense to suggest they do.


<shrug>

Last one I adjusted, I just loosened the two bolts holding the collar, and 
the adjuster slid on the rod, which wasn't threaded. That's how it got 
knocked out of alignment, and that's how it got knocked straight.

"Adrian"  wrote in message
news:Xns968A495E2EBEFadrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170...

> Mike G (metier@lycos.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
> were saying :
>
> > TRE do not slip on rods. What nonsense to suggest they do.
>
> <shrug>
>
> Last one I adjusted, I just loosened the two bolts holding the collar, and
> the adjuster slid on the rod, which wasn't threaded. That's how it got
> knocked out of alignment, and that's how it got knocked straight.


very interesting, perhaps you will let us know what make and model this car
was.....

The message 
from Adrian  contains these words:


> If the TRE didn't slip on the rod, something WOULD bend,


Eh? How's it going to slip - it's a threaded tube on a threaded bar with
a locknut. Short of stripping the threads there's no way at all it can
shift.

-- 
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

"John Greystrong"  wrote in message 
news:3iuktcFn1s5vU1@individual.net...

> Rob graham wrote:
>
>> I have to say, I can't see why this should put tracking out unless it's 
>> severe enough to bend something, but it evidently does.
>
> Does it really? Or is tracking just a big con by tyre places to get
> 20quid for doing fsck all at best and messing things up at worst?
>


No doubt there's some of that. But I've had my cars re-tracked from time to 
time because of uneven tyre wear, not because some tester told me it was 
out.

Rob

> Last one I adjusted, I just loosened the two bolts holding the collar, and
> the adjuster slid on the rod, which wasn't threaded. That's how it got
> knocked out of alignment, and that's how it got knocked straight.


Are you sure? This design would seem madness to me. I've never heard of it 
before.

Rob Graham

Rob graham (rttgrahamwow@btinternet.com) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying : 


>> Last one I adjusted, I just loosened the two bolts holding the
>> collar, and the adjuster slid on the rod, which wasn't threaded.
>> That's how it got knocked out of alignment, and that's how it got
>> knocked straight. 

> Are you sure? This design would seem madness to me. I've never heard
> of it before.


<checks parts book>
The rod and TRE are threaded, by the look, but the adjuster is held by 
pinch bolts, and is not threaded. It certainly kicked straight.

So how does a small kerb knock hit the tracking out without bending 
anything?

"Adrian"  wrote in message
news:Xns968A65B86CB8Aadrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170...

> Rob graham (rttgrahamwow@btinternet.com) gurgled happily, sounding much
> like they were saying :
>
> >> Last one I adjusted, I just loosened the two bolts holding the
> >> collar, and the adjuster slid on the rod, which wasn't threaded.
> >> That's how it got knocked out of alignment, and that's how it got
> >> knocked straight.
>
> > Are you sure? This design would seem madness to me. I've never heard
> > of it before.
>
> <checks parts book>


For which car?



> The rod and TRE are threaded, by the look, but the adjuster is held by
> pinch bolts, and is not threaded. It certainly kicked straight.
>
> So how does a small kerb knock hit the tracking out without bending
> anything?

shazzbat (shazzbat@spamlessness.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like 
they were saying :


> For which car?


2cv.

Yes, I know it's "not normal" in SO many ways, but...


>> So how does a small kerb knock hit the tracking out without bending
>> anything?

"Adrian"  wrote in message
news:Xns968AA917A68ADadrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170...

> shazzbat (shazzbat@spamlessness.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like
> they were saying :
>
> > For which car?
>
> 2cv.
>
> Yes, I know it's "not normal" in SO many ways, but...


I seem to recall seeing som,ething similar on a Jeep I had the misfortune to
do some work on.

But that was a hateful chunk of Yank crap.

> Yes it does, but from the bottom of the tyre where it has minimal effect 
> on the steering levers and joints. The sort of force that puts tracking 
> out comes from further up the tyre, such as when the kerb is hit.
>
> I have to say, I can't see why this should put tracking out unless it's 
> severe enough to bend something, but it evidently does.



That doesn't make sense!  When you corner the wheels will try to 'pivot' on 
their contact with the road (assuming there is grip).  The only thing which 
stops then from doing this is the lower suspension arm and upper 
arm/McPherson strut - neither of which affect the tracking directly as they 
aren't usually adjustable.  The only significance is that the forces 
involved would wear the balljoint(s) and bushes on the suspension 
arm(s)/McPherson strut.

Like I said, unless something gets bent or there is noticeable wear in the 
bushes/balljoints, there should be no reason for the tracking to change 
until somebody takes a spanner to the trackrod ends and physically screws 
them along the rod!

Darren


P.S.

Personally I think it's a con peddled by some incompetent 'mechanics' who 
don't understand simple physics, which is why I wouldn't let them do the 
work on my car...

"Rob graham"  wrote in message
news:daddb5$lj0$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

> > Last one I adjusted, I just loosened the two bolts holding the collar,
and
> > the adjuster slid on the rod, which wasn't threaded. That's how it got
> > knocked out of alignment, and that's how it got knocked straight.
>
> Are you sure? This design would seem madness to me. I've never heard of it
> before.
>


It would wouldn't it? So unsurprisingly it turns out to be used on a 2cv. So
that's representative then.

LMAO

Steve

shazzbat (shazzbat@spamlessness.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying : 


>> Are you sure? This design would seem madness to me. I've never heard
>> of it before.

> It would wouldn't it? So unsurprisingly it turns out to be used on a
> 2cv. So that's representative then.
> 
> LMAO


Yes, yes, whatever, nothing I've not heard before...

Seriously - and this is the third time I've asked it without an answer - if 
it's normally down to threading, *what gives*? 

We've all done it, clonked a wheel against a kerb and knocked the tracking. 
Something's moving. What's moving? Things aren't bending. 

If the adjusters are threaded, they're not going to suddenly fly round a 
few times and move on the threads - so they must be jumping on the threads?

That - to me - sounds like not exactly a great piece of design...

Do that a few times, and the threads'll be thoroughly munged and you're 
looking at replacement of the TRE/adjuster/rod, right?

Surely you want to be designing in a weak point that won't get damaged in 
normal use, just adjustment.

"Adrian"  wrote in message
news:Xns968AC54D89F23adrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170...

> shazzbat (shazzbat@spamlessness.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much
> like they were saying :
>
> >> Are you sure? This design would seem madness to me. I've never heard
> >> of it before.
>
> > It would wouldn't it? So unsurprisingly it turns out to be used on a
> > 2cv. So that's representative then.
> >
> > LMAO
>
> Yes, yes, whatever, nothing I've not heard before...
>
> Seriously - and this is the third time I've asked it without an answer -
if
> it's normally down to threading, *what gives*?


All right, to answer this question from your other post-
"So how does a small kerb knock hit the tracking out without bending
anything?" It doesn't. A small kerb knock is absorbed by the "give" in the
tyres and various bushes.

>
> We've all done it, clonked a wheel against a kerb and knocked the
tracking.
> Something's moving. What's moving? Things aren't bending.


See above.


> If the adjusters are threaded, they're not going to suddenly fly round a
> few times and move on the threads - so they must be jumping on the

threads?

No. The trackrod will bend before the adjustment changes

>
> That - to me - sounds like not exactly a great piece of design...


Well, you have to give them quite a bashing to bend anything. Of course
nobody ever admits to having given the kerb a right wellying. And neither
would I. And don't forget the excuse factor. i.e. " the tracking was out and
knackered my tyres" Translation - " I've been driving like a novaboy and
fucked my tyres" It's a bit like the old " A deer(or other animal) ran out
in front of me and I swerved to miss it" Yeah, yours is the third car I've
winched out of that hedge because of the deer. You lost it on the bend
arsehole.

>
> Do that a few times, and the threads'll be thoroughly munged and you're
> looking at replacement of the TRE/adjuster/rod, right?


Wrong. do it once and you have to replace the bent bit. But the threads will
be fine.

>
> Surely you want to be designing in a weak point that won't get damaged in
> normal use, just adjustment.


No. To do that would be to risk ending up with a 2cv

Steve

shazzbat (shazzbat@spamlessness.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying : 


>> If the adjusters are threaded, they're not going to suddenly fly
>> round a few times and move on the threads - so they must be jumping
>> on the 
> threads?

> No. The trackrod will bend before the adjustment changes


<looks very sceptical>


>> Do that a few times, and the threads'll be thoroughly munged and
>> you're looking at replacement of the TRE/adjuster/rod, right?

> Wrong. do it once and you have to replace the bent bit. But the
> threads will be fine.


Right. So instead of an adjustment, you've got a part replacement - and the 
rack end of the track rod isn't always easy to get to - PLUS the 
adjustment.

Whoop-de-doo.


>> Surely you want to be designing in a weak point that won't get
>> damaged in normal use, just adjustment.

> No. To do that would be to risk ending up with a 2cv


<shrug> Your closed mind, your loss.

"Adrian"  wrote in message
news:Xns968AD149D71F4adrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170...

> shazzbat (shazzbat@spamlessness.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much
> like they were saying :
>
> >> If the adjusters are threaded, they're not going to suddenly fly
> >> round a few times and move on the threads - so they must be jumping
> >> on the
> > threads?
>
> > No. The trackrod will bend before the adjustment changes
>
> <looks very sceptical>


Don't be sceptical. They do. trust me. Recovery is what I do.

>

> > Wrong. do it once and you have to replace the bent bit. But the
> > threads will be fine.
>
> Right. So instead of an adjustment, you've got a part replacement - and
the
> rack end of the track rod isn't always easy to get to - PLUS the
> adjustment.
>
> Whoop-de-doo.

You can usually only change a track rod by itself if the vehicle has a
steering box type arrangement.On most cars you change the rack complete with
track rods. We live in a throwaway society remember.

>
> >> Surely you want to be designing in a weak point that won't get
> >> damaged in normal use, just adjustment.


They don't get damaged in normal use. They get damaged by impacts hard
enough to be (arguably) considered RTAs.. They don't get damaged by any
parking that might be considered normal.

>
> > No. To do that would be to risk ending up with a 2cv
>
> <shrug> Your closed mind, your loss.


That was a joke.

Features which are a good idea become the norm. That's why we have a wheel
at each corner rather than silly three wheelers, indicators instead of
sticking your hand out of the window etc. Of course one should never say
never, but I don't think many features introduced on the 2cv have become the
norm.

Steve

shazzbat (shazzbat@spamlessness.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying : 


>> > No. The trackrod will bend before the adjustment changes

>> <looks very sceptical>

> Don't be sceptical. They do. 


So you're seriously trying to tell me that nobody will ever, ever, ever 
need to have the tracking checked/adjusted - and if they do, it's pretty 
damn pointless unless they replace the rack. Right.


> trust me. Recovery is what I do.


Recovery after people have stuffed it - to a level where they kinda notice 
it's taken a slight knock.

Not after they've knocked a wheel parking and not noticed until they wonder 
why they've chewed a set of front tyres, or the steering wheel's slightly 
on the wonk all of a sudden?


>> > Wrong. do it once and you have to replace the bent bit. But the
>> > threads will be fine.

>> Right. So instead of an adjustment, you've got a part replacement -
>> and the rack end of the track rod isn't always easy to get to - PLUS 
>> the adjustment.
>>
>> Whoop-de-doo.

> You can usually only change a track rod by itself if the vehicle has a
> steering box type arrangement.On most cars you change the rack
> complete with track rods. We live in a throwaway society remember.


Oh, great. Fuck up parking, new rack. Woo-hoo.


> but I don't think many features introduced on the 2cv have become the 
> norm.


True, unfortunately. Small lightweight economical spacious cars with 
suspension that actually smooths out crap road surfaces aren't very 
fashionable these days. Hiho.

Some things that were "firsts" on the 2cv certainly have come into fairly 
standard use, though - there's things like internal headlight height 
adjustment, but there's also subtle little details like standard-fit radial 
tyres...

> So you're seriously trying to tell me that nobody will ever, ever, ever
> need to have the tracking checked/adjusted - and if they do, it's pretty
> damn pointless unless they replace the rack. Right.


Under normal conditions the tracking should not need adjustment *unless*:

a) certain parts of the suspension or steering systems have been replaced. 
This is the most common cause as balljoints and bushes wear out and are an 
MOT failure (as are steering racks if there is any play in them - power 
steering racks need the engine running though before checking this!).  If 
only rubber bushes or the upper/lower suspension arm balljoints are replaced 
the tracking will probably be near to spec, but this is unlikely if the 
trackrod ends or rack are replaced.  In any case, for the time and cost of 
having it done I would suggest checking whenever work has been carried out 
on the steering/suspension.

b) there is reason to believe it is currently set wrong (e.g. excessive tyre 
wear or handling problems), either by bodged work on the suspension/steering 
systems or severe impact damage.

c) the suspension setup has been changed (e.g. lowering) - more relevant to 
McPherson strut systems as the camber angle changes with ride height.  This 
is one of the advantage of double-wishbone suspension (constant camber 
angle)

In the case of your 2CV, or any other car which relies on clamped trackrod 
ends, it would be prudent to check the tracking regularly and as you say, a 
knock to the front wheel(s) could easily throw it out.  However, for many 
cars (certainly all the Fords and Rovers I've seen), adjusting the tracking 
is not a routine operation.  Of course, if there is play in the 
bushes/balljoints or rack then adjusting the tracking is pointless until 
they are sorted!

Darren

"Adrian"  wrote in message
news:Xns968ADA4CC45Badrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170...

> shazzbat (shazzbat@spamlessness.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much
> like they were saying :
>
> >> > No. The trackrod will bend before the adjustment changes
>
> >> <looks very sceptical>
>
> > Don't be sceptical. They do.
>
> So you're seriously trying to tell me that nobody will ever, ever, ever
> need to have the tracking checked/adjusted - and if they do, it's pretty
> damn pointless unless they replace the rack. Right.
>
> > trust me. Recovery is what I do.
>
> Recovery after people have stuffed it - to a level where they kinda notice
> it's taken a slight knock.
>
> Not after they've knocked a wheel parking and not noticed until they
wonder
> why they've chewed a set of front tyres, or the steering wheel's slightly
> on the wonk all of a sudden?
>
> >> > Wrong. do it once and you have to replace the bent bit. But the
> >> > threads will be fine.
>
> >> Right. So instead of an adjustment, you've got a part replacement -
> >> and the rack end of the track rod isn't always easy to get to - PLUS
> >> the adjustment.
> >>
> >> Whoop-de-doo.
>
> > You can usually only change a track rod by itself if the vehicle has a
> > steering box type arrangement.On most cars you change the rack
> > complete with track rods. We live in a throwaway society remember.
>
> Oh, great. Fuck up parking, new rack. Woo-hoo.


The most likely part to get damaged, by a heavy inpact with a kerb etc,
apart from the wheel that is, is the track arm. Not the track rod, or stub
axle.
Impacts like those are taken by the track rod axially. IOW it's either
pulled or pushed. The force required to bend a rod, maybe 16mm in diameter
by simple pressure along it's axis, is far greater than the force required
to bend the track arm, which is at an angle to it. Bending that by as little
as half a degree, will throw the tracking out by the same amount. That's
likely to be over 1mm at the wheel rim. Apart from replacing the track arm,
it can be corrected by adjusting the track rods with little effect to the
overall steering geometry, but unadjusted it is quite likely to affect tyre
wear.
Mike.

The message <ooDye.319$EG.9@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>
from "Darren Jarvis"  contains these words:


> c) the suspension setup has been changed (e.g. lowering) - more relevant to 
> McPherson strut systems as the camber angle changes with ride height.  This 
> is one of the advantage of double-wishbone suspension (constant camber 
> angle)


That's only true if the ends of the wishbones are directly above each
other. If they're set back then changing the ride height will still
affect the camber.

-- 
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."