Today I was looking at a 2004 Vectra 2.2 Direct with 4800 on the clock.  I
checked the engine oil level just after the engine had been running and saw
that the oil at the end of the dipstick was quite black.  Dirtier looking
than my 10 year old Cavalier which has done 102000.  The salesman said that
this was quite normal as it is was the first lot of oil in the engine.
Before the car was sold the oil and filter would be changed as part of the
Network Q service.

Should the oil in a new engine be black ?

Your opinions please.

Regards.

Dave

Dave Dew wrote:

> Today I was looking at a 2004 Vectra 2.2 Direct with 4800 on the clock.  I
> checked the engine oil level just after the engine had been running and saw
> that the oil at the end of the dipstick was quite black.  Dirtier looking
> than my 10 year old Cavalier which has done 102000.  The salesman said that
> this was quite normal as it is was the first lot of oil in the engine.
> Before the car was sold the oil and filter would be changed as part of the
> Network Q service.
> 
> Should the oil in a new engine be black ?


No, the oil in a new engine should not be black, but an engine with 4800 
miles on it is not new.  Your Cavalier hasn't done 102000 miles on its 
original oil has it?

Diesels can blacken their oil within the space of a few miles but still 
maintain its viscosity, you don't say whether this Vectra is Petrol or 
Diesel.

I think modern engines tend to be harder on their oil, perhaps because 
in the olden days, manufacturers were allowed to let more pollutants out 
through the exhaust rather than trap them in the engine oil.

Douglas

"Douglas Payne"  wrote in message
news:42c661b1$0$30843$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...

> Dave Dew wrote:
> > Today I was looking at a 2004 Vectra 2.2 Direct with 4800 on the clock.
I
> > checked the engine oil level just after the engine had been running and
saw
> > that the oil at the end of the dipstick was quite black.  Dirtier
looking
> > than my 10 year old Cavalier which has done 102000.  The salesman said
that
> > this was quite normal as it is was the first lot of oil in the engine.
> > Before the car was sold the oil and filter would be changed as part of
the
> > Network Q service.
> >
> > Should the oil in a new engine be black ?
>
> No, the oil in a new engine should not be black, but an engine with 4800
> miles on it is not new.  Your Cavalier hasn't done 102000 miles on its
> original oil has it?
>
> Diesels can blacken their oil within the space of a few miles but still
> maintain its viscosity, you don't say whether this Vectra is Petrol or
> Diesel.
>
> I think modern engines tend to be harder on their oil, perhaps because
> in the olden days, manufacturers were allowed to let more pollutants out
> through the exhaust rather than trap them in the engine oil.
>
> Douglas



Thanks for that Douglas.  The Vectra is a 2.2 petrol.  What I should have
made plain is that the oil in my old Cavalier tends to stay clean between
the 9000 mile services when the engine is flushed and the oil is changed.
The salesman did say something like you say above but I did not fully
understand.

Regards.

Dave

"Douglas Payne"  wrote in message 
news:42c661b1$0$30843$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...

> Dave Dew wrote:
>> Today I was looking at a 2004 Vectra 2.2 Direct with 4800 on the clock. 
>> I
>> checked the engine oil level just after the engine had been running and 
>> saw
>> that the oil at the end of the dipstick was quite black.  Dirtier looking
>> than my 10 year old Cavalier which has done 102000.  The salesman said 
>> that
>> this was quite normal as it is was the first lot of oil in the engine.
>> Before the car was sold the oil and filter would be changed as part of 
>> the
>> Network Q service.
>>
>> Should the oil in a new engine be black ?
>
> No, the oil in a new engine should not be black, but an engine with 4800 
> miles on it is not new.  Your Cavalier hasn't done 102000 miles on its 
> original oil has it?
>
> Diesels can blacken their oil within the space of a few miles but still 
> maintain its viscosity, you don't say whether this Vectra is Petrol or 
> Diesel.
>
> I think modern engines tend to be harder on their oil, perhaps because in 
> the olden days, manufacturers were allowed to let more pollutants out 
> through the exhaust rather than trap them in the engine oil.



But the colour of the oil isn't a true reflection on the life remaining or 
the quality of it...

-- 
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

DervMan wrote:

> "Douglas Payne"  wrote in message 
> news:42c661b1$0$30843$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
> 
>>Dave Dew wrote:
>>
>>>Today I was looking at a 2004 Vectra 2.2 Direct with 4800 on the clock. 
>>>I
>>>checked the engine oil level just after the engine had been running and 
>>>saw
>>>that the oil at the end of the dipstick was quite black.  Dirtier looking
>>>than my 10 year old Cavalier which has done 102000.  The salesman said 
>>>that
>>>this was quite normal as it is was the first lot of oil in the engine.
>>>Before the car was sold the oil and filter would be changed as part of 
>>>the
>>>Network Q service.
>>>
>>>Should the oil in a new engine be black ?
>>
>>No, the oil in a new engine should not be black, but an engine with 4800 
>>miles on it is not new.  Your Cavalier hasn't done 102000 miles on its 
>>original oil has it?
>>
>>Diesels can blacken their oil within the space of a few miles but still 
>>maintain its viscosity, you don't say whether this Vectra is Petrol or 
>>Diesel.
>>
>>I think modern engines tend to be harder on their oil, perhaps because in 
>>the olden days, manufacturers were allowed to let more pollutants out 
>>through the exhaust rather than trap them in the engine oil.
> 
> 
> 
> But the colour of the oil isn't a true reflection on the life remaining or 
> the quality of it...


I think that was the moral of the story I was trying to put across but 
didn't quite manage. (c:

Douglas

If this is putting doubts in your mind about buying the car - simply walk 
away, there are plenty about.

Check the dipstick of lots of other cars with similar mileage to get a feel 
for what it should look like.


"Dave Dew"  wrote in message 
news:N7sxe.15668$zM2.6306@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...

> Today I was looking at a 2004 Vectra 2.2 Direct with 4800 on the clock.  I
> checked the engine oil level just after the engine had been running and 
> saw
> that the oil at the end of the dipstick was quite black.  Dirtier looking
> than my 10 year old Cavalier which has done 102000.  The salesman said 
> that
> this was quite normal as it is was the first lot of oil in the engine.
> Before the car was sold the oil and filter would be changed as part of the
> Network Q service.
>
> Should the oil in a new engine be black ?
>
> Your opinions please.
>
> Regards.
>
> Dave 

In article <N7sxe.15668$zM2.6306@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>,
   Dave Dew  wrote:

> Today I was looking at a 2004 Vectra 2.2 Direct with 4800 on the clock. 
> I checked the engine oil level just after the engine had been running
> and saw that the oil at the end of the dipstick was quite black. 
> Dirtier looking than my 10 year old Cavalier which has done 102000.  The
> salesman said that this was quite normal as it is was the first lot of
> oil in the engine. Before the car was sold the oil and filter would be
> changed as part of the Network Q service.

> Should the oil in a new engine be black ?


It's certainly possible the initial fill is with a high detergent oil
which will turn black more quickly - or has other properties to help with
long term storage in case production exceeds demand.

-- 
*I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Thankyou one and all.  You have given answers to my concerns. Apart from the
black oil the car is beautiful and is the right price.  I have been dealing
with this garage continuously for over twenty years and they have never let
me down.  I was just unaware of things like detergent oils and was surprised
to see the oil was a black colour.

Regards.

Dave.

The message <42c661b1$0$30843$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
from Douglas Payne  contains these words:


> I think modern engines tend to be harder on their oil, perhaps because 
> in the olden days, manufacturers were allowed to let more pollutants out 
> through the exhaust rather than trap them in the engine oil.


They also run a lot hotter.

-- 
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."