Been patterning my gun with various loads and did some googling in an 
attempt to understand what I was seeing. Whilst loads of info on patterns 
not much on what represents a killing pattern.

Came across this on DEFRA's site,

http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countryside/quarry/1.htm

Its a program that needs downloading, unzipping and running but it is 
interesting. It attempts through you inputting various parameters to 
calculate the kills and retrieves. You can choose various ranges, skill 
levels and cartridges. Nice ballistic graphs too. Most interesting for me 
were the appendices that explain how the research to make the program was 
done.


Dave

In message <hPZwe.6419$CF.44605@news-1.opaltelecom.net>, Dave P 
 writes

>Been patterning my gun with various loads and did some googling in an
>attempt to understand what I was seeing. Whilst loads of info on patterns
>not much on what represents a killing pattern.
>
>Came across this on DEFRA's site,
>
>http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countryside/quarry/1.htm
>
>Its a program that needs downloading, unzipping and running but it is
>interesting. It attempts through you inputting various parameters to
>calculate the kills and retrieves. You can choose various ranges, skill
>levels and cartridges. Nice ballistic graphs too. Most interesting for me
>were the appendices that explain how the research to make the program was
>done.
>
>
>Dave
>

Have a look at "Shotgunning. The art & science" by Bob Brister. Yes I 
know its american, but worth a scan all the same!
larry
-- 
All mail is scanned for viruses using Norton Symantec.

In message <hPZwe.6419$CF.44605@news-1.opaltelecom.net>, Dave P 
 writes

>Been patterning my gun with various loads and did some googling in an
>attempt to understand what I was seeing. Whilst loads of info on patterns
>not much on what represents a killing pattern.
>
>Came across this on DEFRA's site,
>
>http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countryside/quarry/1.htm
>
>Its a program that needs downloading, unzipping and running but it is
>interesting. It attempts through you inputting various parameters to
>calculate the kills and retrieves. You can choose various ranges, skill
>levels and cartridges. Nice ballistic graphs too. Most interesting for me
>were the appendices that explain how the research to make the program was
>done.
>
>
>Dave
>

Have a look at "Shotgunning. The art & science" by Bob Brister. Yes I 
know its american, but worth a scan all the same!
larry
-- 
All mail is scanned for viruses using Norton Symantec.

In article <zTdNx$BhyFyCFw15@whihouse.demon.co.uk>, 
larry@whihouse.demon.co.uk (Larry Armitstead) wrote:


> *From:* Larry Armitstead 
> *Date:* Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:46:09 +0100
> 
> In message <hPZwe.6419$CF.44605@news-1.opaltelecom.net>, Dave P 
>  writes
> >Been patterning my gun with various loads and did some googling in an
> >attempt to understand what I was seeing. Whilst loads of info on 
> patterns
> >not much on what represents a killing pattern.
> >
> >Came across this on DEFRA's site,
> >
> >http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countryside/quarry/1.htm
> >
> >Its a program that needs downloading, unzipping and running but it is
> >interesting. It attempts through you inputting various parameters to
> >calculate the kills and retrieves. You can choose various ranges, skill
> >levels and cartridges. Nice ballistic graphs too. Most interesting for 
> me
> >were the appendices that explain how the research to make the program 
> was
> >done.
> >
> >
> >Dave
> >
> Have a look at "Shotgunning. The art & science" by Bob Brister. Yes I 
> know its american, but worth a scan all the same!
> larry


Available from about ten quid delivered via Amazon.  I'll let you know 
what I think of it when mine arrives!

DC

On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:46:09 +0100, Larry Armitstead  
 wrote:



> Have a look at "Shotgunning. The art & science" by Bob Brister. Yes I  
> know its american, but worth a scan all the same!
> larry


great book - but can't half twist your melon !!
Lymans also has downrange figures for velocity and pellet energy - these  
also significant.


Patterns/holes in patterns/ only relevant when one can put the shot string  
where one needs to..

Scary thought - you can make a three choke difference just through shell  
selection....


-- 
--------------------

On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:46:09 +0100, Larry Armitstead  
 wrote:



> Have a look at "Shotgunning. The art & science" by Bob Brister. Yes I  
> know its american, but worth a scan all the same!
> larry


great book - but can't half twist your melon !!
Lymans also has downrange figures for velocity and pellet energy - these  
also significant.


Patterns/holes in patterns/ only relevant when one can put the shot string  
where one needs to..

Scary thought - you can make a three choke difference just through shell  
selection....


-- 
--------------------

"Newsreader"  wrote in message
news:opstf8z7eyf94ir0@news1066ad.com1...

> On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:46:09 +0100, Larry Armitstead
>  wrote:
>
>
> > Have a look at "Shotgunning. The art & science" by Bob Brister. Yes I
> > know its american, but worth a scan all the same!
> > larry
>
> great book - but can't half twist your melon !!
> Lymans also has downrange figures for velocity and pellet energy - these
> also significant.
>
>
> Patterns/holes in patterns/ only relevant when one can put the shot string
> where one needs to..
>
> Scary thought - you can make a three choke difference just through shell
> selection....
>
>
> -- 

Theres a lot to be said for patterning a gun I had a very lean time with a
beautiful sidelock, everything was as it should be handled beautifully but I
was missing easy shots.  The pattern was badly blown  with voids on 3 axis
you could chase a rabbit through - change of cartridge and everything was
back to even patterns
Derek

"Newsreader"  wrote in message
news:opstf8z7eyf94ir0@news1066ad.com1...

> On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:46:09 +0100, Larry Armitstead
>  wrote:
>
>
> > Have a look at "Shotgunning. The art & science" by Bob Brister. Yes I
> > know its american, but worth a scan all the same!
> > larry
>
> great book - but can't half twist your melon !!
> Lymans also has downrange figures for velocity and pellet energy - these
> also significant.
>
>
> Patterns/holes in patterns/ only relevant when one can put the shot string
> where one needs to..
>
> Scary thought - you can make a three choke difference just through shell
> selection....
>
>
> -- 

Theres a lot to be said for patterning a gun I had a very lean time with a
beautiful sidelock, everything was as it should be handled beautifully but I
was missing easy shots.  The pattern was badly blown  with voids on 3 axis
you could chase a rabbit through - change of cartridge and everything was
back to even patterns
Derek

On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 21:22:25 GMT, Derek   
wrote:



> Theres a lot to be said for patterning a gun I had a very lean time with  
> a
> beautiful sidelock, everything was as it should be handled beautifully  
> but I
> was missing easy shots.  The pattern was badly blown  with voids on 3  
> axis
> you could chase a rabbit through - change of cartridge and everything was
> back to even patterns
> Derek
>
>


I agree comletely. I think its best totake your favourite shell an few  
scrounged sampless of some others and to check out the pattern. but I use  
fixed chokes so for me its nowhere near the labout that you would have to  
put in to a multi-choke
  risk is you can go along way own this road and get distracted.
The phrase 'when you can shoot like George, you can choke like George'  
comes to mind.
A worse risk is that you may find convergence problems with your barrels  
and from that day on you will lose confidence in your gun and will want to  
get rid of it, no matter how well you actually shoot with it. (maybe for  
shiney 32 incher... <g>).


-- 
--------------------

On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 21:22:25 GMT, Derek   
wrote:



> Theres a lot to be said for patterning a gun I had a very lean time with  
> a
> beautiful sidelock, everything was as it should be handled beautifully  
> but I
> was missing easy shots.  The pattern was badly blown  with voids on 3  
> axis
> you could chase a rabbit through - change of cartridge and everything was
> back to even patterns
> Derek
>
>


I agree comletely. I think its best totake your favourite shell an few  
scrounged sampless of some others and to check out the pattern. but I use  
fixed chokes so for me its nowhere near the labout that you would have to  
put in to a multi-choke
  risk is you can go along way own this road and get distracted.
The phrase 'when you can shoot like George, you can choke like George'  
comes to mind.
A worse risk is that you may find convergence problems with your barrels  
and from that day on you will lose confidence in your gun and will want to  
get rid of it, no matter how well you actually shoot with it. (maybe for  
shiney 32 incher... <g>).


-- 
--------------------

In article <opstjoz1i5f94ir0@news1066ad.com1>, whome@192.168.0.1 
(Newsreader) wrote:


> *From:* Newsreader 
> *Date:* Thu, 07 Jul 2005 14:27:27 +0100
> 
> On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 21:22:25 GMT, Derek   
> wrote:
> A worse risk is that you may find convergence problems with your 
> barrels  and from that day on you will lose confidence in your gun and 
> will want to  get rid of it, no matter how well you actually shoot with 
> it. (maybe for  shiney 32 incher... <g>).


:-)

I still believe in my 30 inches, I just liked the feel of an extra couple 
of inches (fnarr fnarr)

DC

In message <opstjoz1i5f94ir0@news1066ad.com1>, Newsreader 
 writes

>On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 21:22:25 GMT, Derek  
>wrote:
>
>
>> Theres a lot to be said for patterning a gun I had a very lean time 
>>with a
>> beautiful sidelock, everything was as it should be handled 
>>beautifully but I
>> was missing easy shots.  The pattern was badly blown  with voids on 3 
>>axis
>> you could chase a rabbit through - change of cartridge and everything was
>> back to even patterns
>> Derek
>>
>>
>
>I agree comletely. I think its best totake your favourite shell an few 
>scrounged sampless of some others and to check out the pattern. but I 
>use  fixed chokes so for me its nowhere near the labout that you would 
>have to  put in to a multi-choke
> risk is you can go along way own this road and get distracted.
>The phrase 'when you can shoot like George, you can choke like George' 
>comes to mind.
>A worse risk is that you may find convergence problems with your 
>barrels and from that day on you will lose confidence in your gun and 
>will want to get rid of it, no matter how well you actually shoot with 
>it. (maybe for shiney 32 incher... <g>).
>

Hit the nail on the head here I think. Normally shoot with 1/2 & 1/2 and 
had a session with world cups. Excellent results & even went to full & 
full for a FITASC session with good results. Then offered RC4s and found 
that the patterning was even tighter than world cups with 40 yd birds 
disappearing !! Tried some other plastic stuff & shot like a handbag! 
Back to plan A!
Shot 1/2 & 1/2 with  world cups at the classic and whilst not in Faulds 
class, was happy. Those I hit were hit well!
Larry
PS was very happy with my 32"!   Loverley swing!
-- 
All mail is scanned for viruses using Norton Symantec.

In message <opstjoz1i5f94ir0@news1066ad.com1>, Newsreader 
 writes

>On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 21:22:25 GMT, Derek  
>wrote:
>
>
>> Theres a lot to be said for patterning a gun I had a very lean time 
>>with a
>> beautiful sidelock, everything was as it should be handled 
>>beautifully but I
>> was missing easy shots.  The pattern was badly blown  with voids on 3 
>>axis
>> you could chase a rabbit through - change of cartridge and everything was
>> back to even patterns
>> Derek
>>
>>
>
>I agree comletely. I think its best totake your favourite shell an few 
>scrounged sampless of some others and to check out the pattern. but I 
>use  fixed chokes so for me its nowhere near the labout that you would 
>have to  put in to a multi-choke
> risk is you can go along way own this road and get distracted.
>The phrase 'when you can shoot like George, you can choke like George' 
>comes to mind.
>A worse risk is that you may find convergence problems with your 
>barrels and from that day on you will lose confidence in your gun and 
>will want to get rid of it, no matter how well you actually shoot with 
>it. (maybe for shiney 32 incher... <g>).
>

Hit the nail on the head here I think. Normally shoot with 1/2 & 1/2 and 
had a session with world cups. Excellent results & even went to full & 
full for a FITASC session with good results. Then offered RC4s and found 
that the patterning was even tighter than world cups with 40 yd birds 
disappearing !! Tried some other plastic stuff & shot like a handbag! 
Back to plan A!
Shot 1/2 & 1/2 with  world cups at the classic and whilst not in Faulds 
class, was happy. Those I hit were hit well!
Larry
PS was very happy with my 32"!   Loverley swing!
-- 
All mail is scanned for viruses using Norton Symantec.

In message <hPZwe.6419$CF.44605@news-1.opaltelecom.net>, Dave P 
 writes

>Been patterning my gun with various loads and did some googling in an
>attempt to understand what I was seeing. Whilst loads of info on patterns
>not much on what represents a killing pattern.


You might find this useful:

http://www.jonathan-spencer.co.uk/Reference/Guns/Shotgun/Ammo/Shotsize1.h
tm

-- 
Jonathan

Teenage pholosophy: to be or not to be? Yeah, whatever.

In message <hPZwe.6419$CF.44605@news-1.opaltelecom.net>, Dave P 
 writes

>Been patterning my gun with various loads and did some googling in an
>attempt to understand what I was seeing. Whilst loads of info on patterns
>not much on what represents a killing pattern.


You might find this useful:

http://www.jonathan-spencer.co.uk/Reference/Guns/Shotgun/Ammo/Shotsize1.h
tm

-- 
Jonathan

Teenage pholosophy: to be or not to be? Yeah, whatever.