I'm in the market for a cheap vauxhall, and am somewhat confused as to 
the difference between Air Conditioning, and Climate Control. I assumed 
that CC was a derivative of AC with a closed-loop control system, 
however, it seems the lower-spec'd cars come with CC, whilst the higher 
speced come with AC/CC - suggesting the former doesn't have AC.

So, my question is - just what is Climate Control, and what is its 
relationship to Air Conditioning.

....and to keep it on topic with uk.rec... is there anything I should be 
wary of when checking out CC and/or AC equipped cars? - obviously - does 
it get cold, but anything like service intervals / gassing frequency?

Mike

> I'm in the market for a cheap vauxhall, and am somewhat confused as to the 
> difference between Air Conditioning, and Climate Control. I assumed that 
> CC was a derivative of AC with a closed-loop control system, however, it 
> seems the lower-spec'd cars come with CC, whilst the higher speced come 
> with AC/CC - suggesting the former doesn't have AC.
>
> So, my question is - just what is Climate Control, and what is its 
> relationship to Air Conditioning.
>
> ...and to keep it on topic with uk.rec... is there anything I should be 
> wary of when checking out CC and/or AC equipped cars? - obviously - does 
> it get cold, but anything like service intervals / gassing frequency?
>


On AC you turn it on and it's on - when you turn it off, its off.  With CC, 
you turn it on, set a desired temperature, and the CC will run until it hits 
that temperature, and then turns itself off, until the temperature rises (or 
falls) and then turn's itself on again until it reaches the desired 
temperature and then turns itself off, etc etc etc.  That's how mine works 
anyway.

Mike Dodd (no-address@lo0) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were 
saying :


> So, my question is - just what is Climate Control


A moving target.

Aircon is easy to define. It's the setup with a 
compressor/condensor/evaporator and a cooling gas which works like a fridge 
to cool and dry the air passing through the heater box.

Climate's more tricky. It's sort-of-a-range of functionality ranging from 
automatic control of the hot/cold airflow thermostatically to maintain a 
set temperature through automatic control of fan speed and air flow 
direction.

If the heater controls are red->blue, then it's not climate.
If they're marked in degC, then it's sort-of-semi-auto-climate.
If there's an "auto" button/setting for the fan and flaps, I'd call that 
climate.


> and what is its relationship to Air Conditioning.


Indirect. Climate is usually fitted with aircon, and usually auto-controls 
the aircon - there may be an "ECO" mode that turns the aircon off.


> ...and to keep it on topic with uk.rec... is there anything I should be 
> wary of when checking out CC and/or AC equipped cars? - obviously - does 
> it get cold, but anything like service intervals / gassing frequency?


Check the air changes direction properly, check the temperature control 
works properly. Aircon needs using regularly, else the seals shrink and the 
gas leaks. If the aircon doesn't cool readily or clear misty windows in wet 
weather, then it's probably empty - and that could get expensive. It might 
just need a sub-100 refill, it might need new and expensive bits.

"Mike Dodd" <no-address@lo0> wrote in message
news:42c3969d$0$6482$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...

> I'm in the market for a cheap vauxhall, and am somewhat confused as to
> the difference between Air Conditioning, and Climate Control. I assumed
> that CC was a derivative of AC with a closed-loop control system,
> however, it seems the lower-spec'd cars come with CC, whilst the higher
> speced come with AC/CC - suggesting the former doesn't have AC.
>
> So, my question is - just what is Climate Control, and what is its
> relationship to Air Conditioning.
>
> ...and to keep it on topic with uk.rec... is there anything I should be
> wary of when checking out CC and/or AC equipped cars? - obviously - does
> it get cold, but anything like service intervals / gassing frequency?
>
> Mike


Others have given you the technical background.  I'll comment on safety
aspects on a top of the range car fitted with "Climate Control".
Was driving along when summer rain turned into a really heavy storm
requiring headlights, wipers etc.  Climate control was doing its stuff, and
visibility was fully adequate for driving.  After about 5 minutes and with
no warning whatsoever, the air conditioner cut out, and virtually instantly
the windscreen misted up making me "blind".  To add to the confusion (I was
driving in traffic.), warnings started flashing from the control, and I
needed a duster to clear the screen.  If you have working Climate Control, a
duster is  not the sort of item that you're likely to have in a convenient
place!  It was a pretty scary situation.
Having pulled in, it proved impossible to get the fan to work by itself, so
sat at the roadside and waited for the storm to clear.  (Prior to this event
the Climate Control had given no warnings whatsoever that it might throw a
tantrum and disable the fan.)

Since then, I've steered clear of Climate Control and am much happier where
the A/C is independent of the normal heater/demister fan and controls.
I did take up the matter with the importers HO but they didn't really want
to know.
-- 
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm

In article <42c3969d$0$6482$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com>,
   Mike Dodd <no-address@lo0> wrote:

> So, my question is - just what is Climate Control, and what is its 
> relationship to Air Conditioning.


It's both under the control of one microprocessor. So set the temperature
to what you want and it will either heat or cool the car as required.
Depending on complexity, it will also control the humidity and look at the
quality of the incoming air and swap from fresh air to re-circulating
automatically. They should all include pollen filters.

 In auto mode on a cold day, mine also starts off with the fan at very low
until the engine starts producing heat. Then ramps up to get the interior
to the correct temp as fast as possible. Then slows to a quiet setting.
And then switches on the fresh air face vents.

 If the day is hot, the blower will come on full, since AC works as soon
as you start the engine. It will then ramp down to normal as the required
temp is approached.

However, you don't have to use auto mode and have complete manual control
over all the functions if you so wish.

-- 
*He who laughs last has just realised the joke.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <da07m5$j61$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>,
   Malcolm Stewart  wrote:

> Since then, I've steered clear of Climate Control and am much happier
> where the A/C is independent of the normal heater/demister fan and
> controls.


On my BMW you have full manual control of the CC if you wish. And in that
mode the two are entirely separate. But even in auto, you have the option
of heating only.

-- 
*Modulation in all things *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 30/06/2005 09:19 Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


> In article <42c3969d$0$6482$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com>,
>    Mike Dodd <no-address@lo0> wrote:
>> So, my question is - just what is Climate Control, and what is its 
>> relationship to Air Conditioning.
> 
> It's both under the control of one microprocessor. So set the temperature
> to what you want and it will either heat or cool the car as required.
> Depending on complexity, it will also control the humidity and look at the


The dehumidifier is, arguably, the best feature of CC as misted up 
windows clear _very_ quickly - even when the engine is cold - and the 
car is less prone to misting up in the first place; I regularly see 
SWMBO's car, which doesn't have AC/CC, misted up when parked on the 
drive but mine is completely clear.


> quality of the incoming air and swap from fresh air to re-circulating
> automatically. They should all include pollen filters.
> 
>  In auto mode on a cold day, mine also starts off with the fan at very low
> until the engine starts producing heat. Then ramps up to get the interior
> to the correct temp as fast as possible. Then slows to a quiet setting.
> And then switches on the fresh air face vents.
> 
>  If the day is hot, the blower will come on full, since AC works as soon
> as you start the engine. It will then ramp down to normal as the required
> temp is approached.
> 


Good explanation. Mine does a neat trick when you start up on a hot day, 
it first directs the air to the screen only, then it opens the footwell 
vents as well, then turns off the screen, turns on the face vents, then 
finally turns off the footwell vents. All this happens with the fan on 
full tilt and takes about 20 secs. The idea is to "flush out" pockets of 
stagnant hot air.

Parish

Dave Plowman (News) (dave@davenoise.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much 
like they were saying :


>> Since then, I've steered clear of Climate Control and am much happier
>> where the A/C is independent of the normal heater/demister fan and
>> controls.

> On my BMW you have full manual control of the CC if you wish. And in that
> mode the two are entirely separate. But even in auto, you have the option
> of heating only.


It's still all controlled by the same ECU, though.

In article ,
   Adrian  wrote:

> >> Since then, I've steered clear of Climate Control and am much happier
> >> where the A/C is independent of the normal heater/demister fan and
> >> controls.

> > On my BMW you have full manual control of the CC if you wish. And in
> > that mode the two are entirely separate. But even in auto, you have
> > the option of heating only.

> It's still all controlled by the same ECU, though.


Yes, but ECUs rarely fail. How often has your computer one gone down?

Now older cars with all the servos vacuum operated...

-- 
*The man who fell into an upholstery machine is fully recovered.*

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Mike Dodd" <no-address@lo0> wrote in message 
news:42c3969d$0$6482$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...

> I'm in the market for a cheap vauxhall, and am somewhat confused as to the 
> difference between Air Conditioning, and Climate Control. I assumed that 
> CC was a derivative of AC with a closed-loop control system, however, it 
> seems the lower-spec'd cars come with CC, whilst the higher speced come 
> with AC/CC - suggesting the former doesn't have AC.
>
> So, my question is - just what is Climate Control, and what is its 
> relationship to Air Conditioning.
>
> ...and to keep it on topic with uk.rec... is there anything I should be 
> wary of when checking out CC and/or AC equipped cars? - obviously - does 
> it get cold, but anything like service intervals / gassing frequency?
>
> Mike


CC: You leave it alone except for setting your preferred temperature and it 
sorts itself out.

Manual control is available but rarely used.

AC: Gives you the option of cooling continually or not, some cars give you 
the option to run heater as well to give good demisting/comfort.

mrcheerful

Dave Plowman (News) (dave@davenoise.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much 
like they were saying :


>> It's still all controlled by the same ECU, though.

> Yes, but ECUs rarely fail. How often has your computer one gone down?


Umm, actually - it has. Terminally. Rescued only by using a good used one 
out of a scrapper. The actual chip doesn't die, but the fan power 
transistors do, as do the connections on the PCB.

The flap motors also play up.


> Now older cars with all the servos vacuum operated...


Ah, proper Saab 900s - turn the heater knobs, and listen to the wheezing 
and sighing and groaning...

Nothing gaffer tape won't fix.

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message 
news:4d830b5ffadave@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <da07m5$j61$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>,
>   Malcolm Stewart  wrote:
>> Since then, I've steered clear of Climate Control and am much happier
>> where the A/C is independent of the normal heater/demister fan and
>> controls.
>
> On my BMW you have full manual control of the CC if you wish. And in that
> mode the two are entirely separate. But even in auto, you have the option
> of heating only.
>
> -- 
> *Modulation in all things *
>
>    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
>                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.


Same on my Volvo 850 and Wife's Volvo S40, both with climate (and AC manual 
override), and on both "windscreen" mode forces the AC on regardless of 
whether it's required for cooling or not.

Alan.

In article ,
   Adrian  wrote:

> > Yes, but ECUs rarely fail. How often has your computer one gone down?

> Umm, actually - it has. Terminally. Rescued only by using a good used
> one out of a scrapper. The actual chip doesn't die, but the fan power
> transistors do, as do the connections on the PCB.


I dunno, but if BMW have any sense they'd use ARM processors for this sort
of thing which don't try and imitate the sun...

-- 
*Eschew obfuscation *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Alan"  wrote in message
news:qmSwe.11421$iT1.1884@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...

>
> "Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message
> news:4d830b5ffadave@davenoise.co.uk...
> > In article <da07m5$j61$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> >   Malcolm Stewart  wrote:
> >> Since then, I've steered clear of Climate Control and am much happier
> >> where the A/C is independent of the normal heater/demister fan and
> >> controls.
> >
> > On my BMW you have full manual control of the CC if you wish. And in
that
> > mode the two are entirely separate. But even in auto, you have the
option
> > of heating only.
>
> Same on my Volvo 850 and Wife's Volvo S40, both with climate (and AC
manual
> override), and on both "windscreen" mode forces the AC on regardless of
> whether it's required for cooling or not.


It's the same with manual air-con in the Volvos - my S70 turns on AC when
you turn the air-distribution up to the windscreen.

"mrcheerful ."  wrote in message
news:BSPwe.59286$G8.1401@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

>
> CC: You leave it alone except for setting your preferred temperature and
it
> sorts itself out.


Good point, well made.

Oddly, though, I've seen numerous people with CC equipped cars, treat them
as if they were manually controlled ventilation systems.


> Manual control is available but rarely used.


Ideally, but I've known some people who either don't seem to get that, or
just feel the need to constantly dither with the settings.

When I've had cars with CC, that was the beauty to me - set the temp, never
worry about it again.

"Parish"  wrote in message
news:42c3b3c7$0$2030$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...

>
> The dehumidifier is, arguably, the best feature of CC as misted up
> windows clear _very_ quickly - even when the engine is cold - and the
> car is less prone to misting up in the first place;


Well I find that bit a little debatable. Once I've used aircon to clear
misty windows (eg in damp weather), I find I then pretty much have to use it
on and off for the rest of the journey (you tend to get some moisture
build-up on the evaporator, when you've run the aircon).

On 30/06/2005 16:29 Douglas Hall wrote:


> "Parish"  wrote in message
> news:42c3b3c7$0$2030$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
>>
>> The dehumidifier is, arguably, the best feature of CC as misted up
>> windows clear _very_ quickly - even when the engine is cold - and the
>> car is less prone to misting up in the first place;
> 
> Well I find that bit a little debatable. Once I've used aircon to clear
> misty windows (eg in damp weather), I find I then pretty much have to use it
> on and off for the rest of the journey (you tend to get some moisture
> build-up on the evaporator, when you've run the aircon).
> 
> 


that will happen of course if you turn the AC off as it won't be 
dehumidifying the ambient air.

I did say the best feature of CC, not AC, which (assuming you leave it 
on auto) cools/dehumidifies the air before heating it.

Parish

"Parish"  wrote in message
news:42c41238$0$30844$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...

> On 30/06/2005 16:29 Douglas Hall wrote:
>
> > "Parish"  wrote in message
> > news:42c3b3c7$0$2030$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
> >>
> >> The dehumidifier is, arguably, the best feature of CC as misted up
> >> windows clear _very_ quickly - even when the engine is cold - and the
> >> car is less prone to misting up in the first place;
> >
> > Well I find that bit a little debatable. Once I've used aircon to clear
> > misty windows (eg in damp weather), I find I then pretty much have to
use it
> > on and off for the rest of the journey (you tend to get some moisture
> > build-up on the evaporator, when you've run the aircon).
>
> that will happen of course if you turn the AC off as it won't be
> dehumidifying the ambient air.
>
> I did say the best feature of CC, not AC, which (assuming you leave it
> on auto) cools/dehumidifies the air before heating it.


I think all I meant to point out, being that using the AC to dehumidify is
good, but then tends to make you dependent on it for that journey. Clearly
CC masks that, because it's one and off with the AC as it's want.

On 30/06/2005 16:55 Douglas Hall wrote:


> "Parish"  wrote in message
> news:42c41238$0$30844$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
>> On 30/06/2005 16:29 Douglas Hall wrote:
>>
>> > "Parish"  wrote in message
>> > news:42c3b3c7$0$2030$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
>> >>
>> >> The dehumidifier is, arguably, the best feature of CC as misted up
>> >> windows clear _very_ quickly - even when the engine is cold - and the
>> >> car is less prone to misting up in the first place;
>> >
>> > Well I find that bit a little debatable. Once I've used aircon to clear
>> > misty windows (eg in damp weather), I find I then pretty much have to
> use it
>> > on and off for the rest of the journey (you tend to get some moisture
>> > build-up on the evaporator, when you've run the aircon).
>>
>> that will happen of course if you turn the AC off as it won't be
>> dehumidifying the ambient air.
>>
>> I did say the best feature of CC, not AC, which (assuming you leave it
>> on auto) cools/dehumidifies the air before heating it.
> 
> I think all I meant to point out, being that using the AC to dehumidify is
> good, but then tends to make you dependent on it for that journey. Clearly
> CC masks that, because it's one and off with the AC as it's want.
> 
> 


Sorry, misunderstood what you were saying.

Parish

"Douglas Hall" <@> wrote in message 
news:42c40f24$0$13707$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net...

> "mrcheerful ."  wrote in message
> news:BSPwe.59286$G8.1401@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>> CC: You leave it alone except for setting your preferred temperature and
> it
>> sorts itself out.
>
> Good point, well made.
>
> Oddly, though, I've seen numerous people with CC equipped cars, treat them
> as if they were manually controlled ventilation systems.
>
>> Manual control is available but rarely used.
>
> Ideally, but I've known some people who either don't seem to get that, or
> just feel the need to constantly dither with the settings.


Ahh, you know my wife then !!

mrcheerful

On 30/06/2005 17:14 mrcheerful . wrote:


> "Douglas Hall" <@> wrote in message 
> news:42c40f24$0$13707$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net...
>> "mrcheerful ."  wrote in message
>> news:BSPwe.59286$G8.1401@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>
>>> CC: You leave it alone except for setting your preferred temperature and
>> it
>>> sorts itself out.
>>
>> Good point, well made.
>>
>> Oddly, though, I've seen numerous people with CC equipped cars, treat them
>> as if they were manually controlled ventilation systems.
>>
>>> Manual control is available but rarely used.
>>
>> Ideally, but I've known some people who either don't seem to get that, or
>> just feel the need to constantly dither with the settings.
> 
> Ahh, you know my wife then !!
> 


But that's only because you won't let her play with the TV remote 
control ;-)

Parish

I have had the very same on a car with just air con but in different weather 
conditions. Window just steemed up within seconds and had to switch off and 
demist the screen with the heater.

Must just depend on variations between internal/external temperature and 
humidity

Steve

"Douglas Hall" <@> wrote in message
news:42c40fe1$0$13704$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net...

> "Parish"  wrote in message
> news:42c3b3c7$0$2030$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
> >
> > The dehumidifier is, arguably, the best feature of CC as misted up
> > windows clear _very_ quickly - even when the engine is cold - and the
> > car is less prone to misting up in the first place;
>
> Well I find that bit a little debatable. Once I've used aircon to clear
> misty windows (eg in damp weather), I find I then pretty much have to use
it
> on and off for the rest of the journey (you tend to get some moisture
> build-up on the evaporator, when you've run the aircon).


I found this in my MK4 Golf with CC, this is an indication that there is a
film of grease on the interior glass, a quick once over with glass cleaner
and the windows do not mist over.

"Malcolm Stewart"  wrote in
message news:da07m5$j61$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...

> "Mike Dodd" <no-address@lo0> wrote in message
> news:42c3969d$0$6482$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
[snip]

>
> Others have given you the technical background.  I'll comment on safety
> aspects on a top of the range car fitted with "Climate Control".
> Was driving along when summer rain turned into a really heavy storm
> requiring headlights, wipers etc.  Climate control was doing its stuff,
and
> visibility was fully adequate for driving.  After about 5 minutes and with
> no warning whatsoever, the air conditioner cut out, and virtually
instantly
> the windscreen misted up making me "blind".  To add to the confusion (I
was
> driving in traffic.), warnings started flashing from the control, and I
> needed a duster to clear the screen.  If you have working Climate Control,
a
> duster is  not the sort of item that you're likely to have in a convenient
> place!  It was a pretty scary situation.
> Having pulled in, it proved impossible to get the fan to work by itself,
so
> sat at the roadside and waited for the storm to clear.  (Prior to this
event
> the Climate Control had given no warnings whatsoever that it might throw a
> tantrum and disable the fan.)
>
> Since then, I've steered clear of Climate Control and am much happier
where
> the A/C is independent of the normal heater/demister fan and controls.
> I did take up the matter with the importers HO but they didn't really want
> to know.


Did you read the owners manual?
I have 2 Golfs both with CC, I would not have a car without it now....
2 weeks ago I was driving to Cannock and there were the storms and flash
floods , the CC worked a treat and I maintained full visibilty throughout my
journey,
the compressor needs to be on for best screen clearing effects moreover than
fan speeds, in the winter economy mode can be selected where the compressor
is off and better fuel economy is observed all be it 1-3 mpg.