When did technical information about ones car become arcane "dealer only"
knowledge?

Until a couple of years ago I used to be able to phone up Citroen UK for
information but now they only "interface" with fecking dealers, not owners.
Given that I've fallen out with my local dealer it makes it a real PITA
trying to get any info about my car.

FWIW, my problem is one that can probably be solved within seconds once it's
linked up to their diagnostic computer but given how dim the service manager
is, (who thankfully won't actually lay hands on my car) I've lost faith with
the whole garage and I'd rather have an idea what the prolem might be
*before* I leave my car to their mercies.

The problem?  Citroen Synergie, 2.0 HDiSX, flashing temperature warning
light that stops flashing when the climate control is either off or idle.
It's not overheating.  According to the handbook, if it overheats the light
should not flash but stay on and the STOP light should illuminate.

I suspect the light is doing double duty as a warning light for the aircon
system pressure or something like that but it's not listed in the handbook.

Any suggestions?

Tim

"Tim Downie"  wrote in message
news:3ifigiFl3povU1@individual.net...

> When did technical information about ones car become arcane "dealer only"
> knowledge?
>
> Until a couple of years ago I used to be able to phone up Citroen UK for
> information but now they only "interface" with fecking dealers, not
owners.
> Given that I've fallen out with my local dealer it makes it a real PITA
> trying to get any info about my car.
>
> FWIW, my problem is one that can probably be solved within seconds once
it's
> linked up to their diagnostic computer but given how dim the service
manager
> is, (who thankfully won't actually lay hands on my car) I've lost faith
with
> the whole garage and I'd rather have an idea what the prolem might be
> *before* I leave my car to their mercies.
>
> The problem?  Citroen Synergie, 2.0 HDiSX, flashing temperature warning
> light that stops flashing when the climate control is either off or idle.
> It's not overheating.  According to the handbook, if it overheats the
light
> should not flash but stay on and the STOP light should illuminate.
>
> I suspect the light is doing double duty as a warning light for the aircon
> system pressure or something like that but it's not listed in the
handbook.
>



You really need to be hooked upto the OBDII  socket to monitor live data,
drive the actuators, and do some more exploratory work, but at a guess you
have a cooling fan issue-possibly the low speed .

(reasoning- with the a/c compressor engaged the ECU in most recent cars
calls for a slow fan to keep the condensor cool- and I would suspect its
finding the fan isnt starting.)

Its not overheating because when coolant temp rises sufficiently the ECU is
calling for full fan speed, which is working

Tim..

"Tim.."  wrote in message 
news:d9u5ie$rh4$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

> You really need to be hooked upto the OBDII  socket to monitor live data,
> drive the actuators, and do some more exploratory work, but at a guess you
> have a cooling fan issue-possibly the low speed .
>
> (reasoning- with the a/c compressor engaged the ECU in most recent cars
> calls for a slow fan to keep the condensor cool- and I would suspect its
> finding the fan isnt starting.)
>
> Its not overheating because when coolant temp rises sufficiently the ECU 
> is
> calling for full fan speed, which is working


Cheers Tim,  that sounds plausible.  I know it doesn't make any difference 
but I hate putting my car into the garage without having some idea of what's 
wrong first.

Tim (the first one).

Tim Downie (timdownie2003@obvious.yahoo.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying : 


> When did technical information about ones car become arcane "dealer
> only" knowledge?
> 
> Until a couple of years ago I used to be able to phone up Citroen UK
> for information but now they only "interface" with fecking dealers,
> not owners. Given that I've fallen out with my local dealer it makes
> it a real PITA trying to get any info about my car.

> Citroen Synergie, 2.0 HDiSX


Try talking to Peugeot or Fiat, or their dealers - or a half-decent Citroen 
specialist.
A Synergie is the same as an 806 is the same as a Ulysse.

"Adrian"  wrote in message 
news:Xns9684BAE20F4BCadrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170...


> Try talking to Peugeot or Fiat, or their dealers - or a half-decent 
> Citroen
> specialist.
> A Synergie is the same as an 806 is the same as a Ulysse.


Not as far as the diagnostics are concerned (at least according to my local 
Peugeot dealer).

Tim

Tim Downie (timdownie2003@obvious.yahoo.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying : 


>> Try talking to Peugeot or Fiat, or their dealers - or a half-decent 
>> Citroen specialist.
>> A Synergie is the same as an 806 is the same as a Ulysse.

> Not as far as the diagnostics are concerned (at least according to my
> local Peugeot dealer).


Your Peugeot dealer's talking crap. He can *certainly* diagnose it. I very 
much doubt that Fiat fitted different engine management, since all three 
(plus the Lancia we didn't get) were all built in the same factory.

http://www.sun-diagnostics.com/italy/pdf/full_citroen.html
http://www.sun-diagnostics.com/italy/pdf/full_fiat.html
http://www.sun-diagnostics.com/italy/pdf/full_peugeot.html

seems to suggest the same engine management, too.

Alternatively
http://www.carmechanicsmag.co.uk/cgi-bin/purchase.cgi?i=040009CMM&s=bi

Adrian wrote:

> Tim Downie (timdownie2003@obvious.yahoo.co.uk) gurgled happily,
> sounding much like they were saying :
>
>>> Try talking to Peugeot or Fiat, or their dealers - or a half-decent
>>> Citroen specialist.
>>> A Synergie is the same as an 806 is the same as a Ulysse.
>
>> Not as far as the diagnostics are concerned (at least according to my
>> local Peugeot dealer).
>
> Your Peugeot dealer's talking crap.


Either way, it doesn't exactly inspire me with confidence in the Citroen 
*or* Peugeot dealers.


> He can *certainly* diagnose it. I
> very much doubt that Fiat fitted different engine management, since
> all three (plus the Lancia we didn't get) were all built in the same
> factory.
>
> http://www.sun-diagnostics.com/italy/pdf/full_citroen.html
> http://www.sun-diagnostics.com/italy/pdf/full_fiat.html
> http://www.sun-diagnostics.com/italy/pdf/full_peugeot.html
>
> seems to suggest the same engine management, too.
>
> Alternatively
> http://www.carmechanicsmag.co.uk/cgi-bin/purchase.cgi?i=040009CMM&s=bi


Hmm...  might get that.  To be honest though, I think I'll just keep my 
fingers crossed and never buy Citroen again.

Thanks for the info.

Tim

Tim Downie (timdownie2003@obvious.yahoo.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding 
much like they were saying :


> To be honest though, I think I'll just keep my 
> fingers crossed and never buy Citroen again.


But you haven't this time. You've got a Fiat.

Tim Downie wrote:


>
> Hmm...  might get that.  To be honest though, I think I'll just keep my
> fingers crossed and never buy Citroen again.
>

The main agents do seem to be idiots IME. Find a local specialist or
two and try them out. I've found one bloke in Gloucester who's worth
his weight in gold.


That aside I had a similar problem on two occasions with my Xantia,
except the warning light came on and stayed on for a while together
with the cooling fans. Again like you the engine wasn't overheating and
I had the AC on. In the Xantia the AC and fans are controlled by what
they call a Bitron sensor. God knows what it is, but it could be worth
(if yours is similar of course) checking the connections to it. I
pulled the plug off the sensor and reseated it and all has been fine
for the last 9 months.

-- 
Malc

i have an x reg citroen synergie with exactly the same problem. I had the 
air con gas topped up but the light still flashes. I know its not 
overheating but the light still worries me. I also have the windscreen 
wipers coming on when ever they like, usually when i start the car, they do 
maybe 20 wipes then stop but sometimes start again for another cycle...and 
another... its driving me nuts!!!!!

sent it in once to dealer garage but they couldnt find a fault with the 
wipers. My usual maintenence man cant help cos its electrical and i know if 
i take to a dealer they will charge me an arm and a leg
love my car but its become a PITA.

any help apreciated


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