So,

Not long to go before the lefty socialists try to "make their mark", however 
things seem eerily normal for the time being.  I am hoping that "Sir" 
Geldoff's dream falls flat on its face, and 1 million actually becomes 
1,000.

What are your thoughts?  Lefties need not reply - I have already heard and 
refuted your silly arguments hundred's of times before.

Edinburgh residents, what do you see happening?  Any predictions?  Is it all 
going to blow over without any major incidents?  Let's hope the hippies go 
back to their druggy slums and leave all us hard working folk to get on with 
life as normal.

I for one can't wait to get back into the office to help pay for the new BMW 
convertible.

Jimbobbery.

Intersting.
 I think Mr Geldoff is more interested in trying help people poor,
starving & facing tortue than worrying about a few days of traffic
problems that you you will have to deal with. Pesonally I do not give
a shit about the worries you will have for a few days compared to most
people in Africa.
Anyone Agree?
Is this guy a selfish biggoted idiot or what.



On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:42:41 +0100, "Jim" 
wrote:


>So,
>
>Not long to go before the lefty socialists try to "make their mark", however 
>things seem eerily normal for the time being.  I am hoping that "Sir" 
>Geldoff's dream falls flat on its face, and 1 million actually becomes 
>1,000.
>
>What are your thoughts?  Lefties need not reply - I have already heard and 
>refuted your silly arguments hundred's of times before.
>
>Edinburgh residents, what do you see happening?  Any predictions?  Is it all 
>going to blow over without any major incidents?  Let's hope the hippies go 
>back to their druggy slums and leave all us hard working folk to get on with 
>life as normal.
>
>I for one can't wait to get back into the office to help pay for the new BMW 
>convertible.
>
>Jimbobbery. 
>
>

Mr Smith  wrote:


>  I think Mr Geldoff is more interested in trying help people poor,
> starving & facing tortue than worrying about a few days of traffic
> problems that you you will have to deal with.


Bollocks. Saint Bob just wants to be famous one last time.


> Pesonally I do not give
> a shit about the worries you will have for a few days compared to most
> people in Africa.


Yup, and that's what's bothering the residents of Edinburgh. Bugger off
to Africa.

FoFP

Mr Smith wrote:

> Is this guy a selfish biggoted idiot or what.


Pretty much. Trying to label all the protesters who'll be comoing to
Edinburgh as wild eyed lefties, pretty sad - some are, bur far from
all.

There are some interesting points to be made on both the pros and cons
of this whole thing, but this chap is obviously far too stupid to enage
in any of that.

Persoanally, I don't know what to expect, but I'll be there. And if I
have to walk to work a couple of days, well it won't kill me.

It's maybe a bit sickly, optimistic or even niave, but I did like the
comments of some kid from Auchterarder on the BBC website. And his week
will be disrupted a damn sight more than the majority of Edinburgh
residents.


>From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4089920.stm


We can only hope that the summit progresses peacefully and that many
pertinent issues are addressed and possibly resolved during the
three-day meeting of the G8.

Wouldn't it be satisfying to know that any inconvenience caused to the
residents of Auchterarder had at least culminated in a positive outcome
for the world and for future generations?

A little bit of history would have been created on our doorstep.

In article <d9u26j$3kq$3@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>, M Holmes
 wrote:


> Mr Smith  wrote:
> 
> > Pesonally I do not give
> > a shit about the worries you will have for a few days compared to most
> > people in Africa.
> 
> Yup, and that's what's bothering the residents of Edinburgh. Bugger off
> to Africa.


At the risk of feeding the troll(s), I'd like to add that Mr Poo
doesn't speak for all the residents of Edinburgh.

Sam

urchaidh wrote:

> Persoanally, I don't know what to expect, but I'll be there. And if I
> have to walk to work a couple of days, well it won't kill me.


No it won't, but the point is the knockon effect.

'Sir' Bob is already :

- Giving away concert tickets for free...when people are happy to pay 
top dollar for them. Loss of money for potential aid.

- Inciting people to travel far and wide to turn up and protest. Loss of 
money for potential aid from travel fare

- Imposing infrastructure costs on the city of edinburgh (that a number 
of protestors seem to think is unfair. 5 for a tent pitch for the week 
isn't unreasonable is it?) and will come out the tax payers pocket one 
way or t'other. Loss of money to charity...I'd rather donate how much 
this is going to cost me in tax to a charity of Super Geldofs (tm) 
choice than pay for all the extra policing / portaloos / clean up that 
Edinburgh will need.

- A lot of business and companies are shutting down or scaling back 
massively and the transport infrastructure will likely break down to a 
large extent (all the taxi drivers I've spoken too seem to be going on 
holiday that week and with the amount of roads being closed or re routed 
for various reasons the buses are going to be even worse than they 
currently are) which is a loss of earnings / profit for them and others 
that rely on them. An idealistic notion would be that this could be a 
loss to African aid...I'm sure alot of the companies would rather give a 
  sum towards the Aid effort than lose all their profits for a period. 
However I may be wrong ;)

It's fine and well saying its about raising awareness but at every point 
  where (a susbtantial sum of )money could have been raised and given 
directly to the cause its being used on getting a bunch of people 
together to march about a bit and have a concert.

Would the people in Africa / Impoverished nations around the world who 
The Geldof is trying to help really rather we did that? or send them 
<insert sum of money that each individual will cost in the process> 
directly?

My schoolboy politics don't see how squandering vast amounts of 
individuals, councils and companies money on a march / feelgood concert 
combo will really help things all that much compared to how much use 
that money could do if directly applied to the problem.

Of course this all assumes that wiping out Debt will actually solve the 
problem rather than being a simple band aid (no pun intended) stop gap 
measure and that we should be focusing on the issues at the root 
cause....but again I'm applying my schoolboy politics disclaimer.

So yeah maybe the parent was a bit harsh but I think his heads in the 
right place.

I appreciate the sentiment and think it's a noble (potentially 
misguided) cause, but I *really* don't like the way it's been gone about 
  (I'm not sure many individuals would get away with creating the kindof 
come and protest en masse publicity whirlwind he's been generating...as 
frankly, I find it dangerous and irresponsible) and the fact it's 
happening on my own doorstep and that alot of people I know are looking 
to get the hell out the city for the week or at least are a bit 
concerned about stepping outside their door compounds my feelings.

If the Daily Records story about him getting in on the G8 is true then 
that is even worse...who elected him to speak on their behalf? I 
wouldn't stand a chance in hell on getting in there with my views so why 
should he?

And don't even get me started on Bono...or those patronising 'I make 20 
million dollars a movie; look at how easy it is for me to say you should 
give money away whilst not donating anywhere near a proportiante amount 
myself' celebrity finger clicking ads  ;)

Kev

Kev  writes:


> If the Daily Records story about him getting in on the G8 is true
> then that is even worse...who elected him to speak on their behalf?


Who ever said he was speaking on anyone's behalf but his own?  It's
the politicians & heads of government who make claims about who they
speak for.


> I wouldn't stand a chance in hell on getting in there with my views
> so why should he?


Perhaps because he's got off his arse and actually done something?
What have you done? Beyond whining on Usenet, of course? 

-- 
In the bitter dance of loneliness fading into space

Kev wrote:

> urchaidh wrote:
> 
>> Persoanally, I don't know what to expect, but I'll be there. And if I
>> have to walk to work a couple of days, well it won't kill me.
> 
> 
> No it won't, but the point is the knockon effect.
> 
> 'Sir' Bob is already :
> 
> - Giving away concert tickets for free...when people are happy to pay
> top dollar for them. Loss of money for potential aid.


He's not giving the tickets away for free, he's conducted a lottery any
profits from which go to charity.

August West wrote:


> Who ever said he was speaking on anyone's behalf but his own?  It's
> the politicians & heads of government who make claims about who they
> speak for.


But they're not letting everyone in to speak on their own behalf? Else 
there would be millions of people queueing up to have a word in the ear 
of Bush.

So why him?

All the other people there are there to represent some group of people 
who have put them in the position to make the relevant decisions.

Except Bob.

And don't try and say that all the people protesting have the right to 
have him there as their mouthpiece because thats not the way things work 
  (if it did it would be anarchy..) and even if it did its still not a 
high enough proportion of the population to give him that 'honour'.


> Perhaps because he's got off his arse and actually done something?
> What have you done? Beyond whining on Usenet, of course? 


And what has Bob done?

Are you suggesting I should issue a rousing battle cry and descend upon 
a city with tens of thousands of complete strangers? Under the banner of 
a cause that the above action isn't really directly helping?

Is that the cost of a personal invite to the G8?

If I go and donate, say 20 to <insert african aid charity of your 
choice> I think I would have had a more direct influence on the problem 
than anyone coming to Edinburgh. At least if the '20 will feed this 
person for the rest of their life' style claims the adverts make are true.

Was I really whining incidentally? or offering a reasoned (however 
flawed it may be certain peoples views) view of why whats happening 
isn't really the greatest thing since the last greatest thing?

ho humm

Kev

I think its been clearly stated that money raised from the ticket lotteries 
goes towards the expense of staging the concerts. 
Its also been clearly stated that this event isn't about raising money.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------

william hewitt is stated to have refused to associate with mankind - Googlism

Jim wrote:

> So,
>
> Not long to go before the lefty socialists try to "make their mark", however
> things seem eerily normal for the time being.  I am hoping that "Sir"
> Geldoff's dream falls flat on its face, and 1 million actually becomes
> 1,000.


Can you just give us a quick run-down of how you've lived your life so
far, so I can definatively avoid ending up anything like you ?  Cheers.

On 29 Jun 2005 07:34:08 -0700
"Alex Bird"  wrote:


> Jim wrote:
> > So,
> >
> > Not long to go before the lefty socialists try to "make their mark", however
> > things seem eerily normal for the time being.  I am hoping that "Sir"
> > Geldoff's dream falls flat on its face, and 1 million actually becomes
> > 1,000.
> 
> Can you just give us a quick run-down of how you've lived your life so
> far, so I can definatively avoid ending up anything like you ?  Cheers.


'Sit under bridge awaiting billygoats and reading the Evening News'

-- 
TheMgt

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:23:39 GMT someone who may be Kev
 wrote this:-


>- Imposing infrastructure costs on the city of edinburgh (that a number 
>of protestors seem to think is unfair. 5 for a tent pitch for the week 
>isn't unreasonable is it?)


http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/CEC/G8accommodation/index.html says
differently:

"Cost - A service charge will apply of 5 per pitch, per night. This
is less than the standard rate and will contribute to the cost of
stewarding and other services during the campsite period."




-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

> "Cost - A service charge will apply of £5 per pitch, per night. This
> is less than the standard rate and will contribute to the cost of
> stewarding and other services during the campsite period."


Either way, it's not an unreasonable charge, is it? Unless you'd rather
finance the operation yourself?

-- 
Steven Hill

I rant, therefore I am.

David Hansen wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:23:39 GMT someone who may be Kev
>  wrote this:-
> 
> 
>>- Imposing infrastructure costs on the city of edinburgh (that a number 
>>of protestors seem to think is unfair. 5 for a tent pitch for the week 
>>isn't unreasonable is it?)
> 
> 
> http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/CEC/G8accommodation/index.html says
> differently:
> 
> "Cost - A service charge will apply of 5 per pitch, per night. This
> is less than the standard rate and will contribute to the cost of
> stewarding and other services during the campsite period."


My mistake, I read elsewhere it was 5 a week.

Regardless 5 a night isn't unreasonable? (assuming the ground they're 
getting isn't prone to flooding so their tents stay dry and safe)

kev

Mr Smith wrote:

> Intersting.
>  I think Mr Geldoff is more interested in trying help people poor,
> starving & facing tortue than worrying about a few days of traffic
> problems that you you will have to deal with. Pesonally I do not give
> a shit about the worries you will have for a few days compared to most
> people in Africa.


Don't think 90% of people (in Edinburgh) would care they had to go
through a week [1] of disruption if they thought this would do any good
at all in Africa.
 Who is this "you", who has worries, you don't give a shit about?

[1] Have heard various lengths of time form a "couple" of days right up
to a week.

-- 
yours S

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione

"Jim"  writes:


>Edinburgh residents, what do you see happening?  Any predictions?


Given the usual current state of summer grid-locked congestion on
Edinburgh's city centre roads, half of which are as usual being dug
up, I can't see a million or so extra folk marching around will make
any noticeable difference to car driving commuters. Might give them
something to watch while they sit in their cars waiting for the next
few yards of progress next time the lights change.

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB,  Informatics,  JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

"Jim"  wrote in message
news:d9tqdh$qha$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...

> So,
>
> Not long to go before the lefty socialists try to "make their mark",
however
> things seem eerily normal for the time being.  I am hoping that "Sir"
> Geldoff's dream falls flat on its face, and 1 million actually becomes
> 1,000.
>
> What are your thoughts?  Lefties need not reply - I have already heard and
> refuted your silly arguments hundred's of times before.
>
> Edinburgh residents, what do you see happening?  Any predictions?  Is it
all
> going to blow over without any major incidents?  Let's hope the hippies go
> back to their druggy slums and leave all us hard working folk to get on
with
> life as normal.
>
> I for one can't wait to get back into the office to help pay for the new
BMW
> convertible.
>
> Jimbobbery.
>
>


Lefty? Not all anti capitalist people are lefties. Capitalism is out of
control these days, you're going to have to accept that loads of people are
unhappy with the present system and government. I live in Edinburgh and I
welcome the protests.

"Mr Smith"  wrote in message 
news:42c285df.2198343@news.btinternet.com...

>Pesonally I do not give
> a shit about the worries you will have


Precisely the attitude that we expect from protestors.

There's nothing makes me feel more convinced that, for example, fox hunting 
is right than the scum that protest against it.  Ditto vivisection.

regards,
/alan

"neutron" <neutron(not real)@a.b.c.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:d9ul61$c9p$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

> Capitalism is out of
> control these days, you're going to have to accept that loads of people 
> are
> unhappy with the present system and government. I live in Edinburgh and I
> welcome the protests.



Here's what I don't understand.  People campaign against globalisation on 
the grounds that the developed world exploits the underdeveloped world.  Yet 
in doing so, they effect a redistribution of wealth, laying off staff in the 
developed world and paying people in the underdeveloped one.

What's so bad about that?

regards,
/alan

"August West"  wrote in message
news:87acl9mgd3.fsf@news2.kororaa.com...

> Kev  writes:
>
> > If the Daily Records story about him getting in on the G8 is true
> > then that is even worse...who elected him to speak on their behalf?
>
> Who ever said he was speaking on anyone's behalf but his own?  It's
> the politicians & heads of government who make claims about who they
> speak for.


I think it is called Democracy, for most of them at least.


>
> > I wouldn't stand a chance in hell on getting in there with my views
> > so why should he?
>
> Perhaps because he's got off his arse and actually done something?
> What have you done? Beyond whining on Usenet, of course?
>
> -- 
> In the bitter dance of loneliness fading into space

I think also, we are confusing the minor issues of short term concert
planning with wider issues.

G8 is nothing to do with Geldof, the trouble will happen anyway.

All Geldof is really doing is providing a bit of music for the west side of
town next week

"Jim"  wrote in message
news:d9tqdh$qha$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...

> So,
>
> Not long to go before the lefty socialists try to "make their mark",
however
> things seem eerily normal for the time being.  I am hoping that "Sir"
> Geldoff's dream falls flat on its face, and 1 million actually becomes
> 1,000.
>
> What are your thoughts?  Lefties need not reply - I have already heard and
> refuted your silly arguments hundred's of times before.
>
> Edinburgh residents, what do you see happening?  Any predictions?  Is it
all
> going to blow over without any major incidents?  Let's hope the hippies go
> back to their druggy slums and leave all us hard working folk to get on
with
> life as normal.
>
> I for one can't wait to get back into the office to help pay for the new
BMW
> convertible.
>
> Jimbobbery.
>
>

"alan"  wrote in message
news:UqBwe.13412$G2.1511@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> "neutron" <neutron(not real)@a.b.c.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:d9ul61$c9p$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> > Capitalism is out of
> > control these days, you're going to have to accept that loads of people
> > are
> > unhappy with the present system and government. I live in Edinburgh and
I
> > welcome the protests.
>
>
> Here's what I don't understand.  People campaign against globalisation on
> the grounds that the developed world exploits the underdeveloped world.
Yet
> in doing so, they effect a redistribution of wealth, laying off staff in
the
> developed world and paying people in the underdeveloped one.
>
> What's so bad about that?


Well, capitalism is all about massive, faceless companies that actually show
a lot of psychopathic traits in the way they conduct business. That's why I
don't like the present capitalist system (I'm not a lefty, I just think
things should be changed).

"neutron" <neutron(not real)@a.b.c.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:d9v3q8$peb$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

> "alan"  wrote in message
> news:UqBwe.13412$G2.1511@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> Here's what I don't understand.  People campaign against globalisation on
>> the grounds that the developed world exploits the underdeveloped world.
> Yet
>> in doing so, they effect a redistribution of wealth, laying off staff in
> the
>> developed world and paying people in the underdeveloped one.
>>
>> What's so bad about that?
>
> Well, capitalism is all about massive, faceless companies that actually 
> show
> a lot of psychopathic traits in the way they conduct business. That's why 
> I
> don't like the present capitalist system (I'm not a lefty, I just think
> things should be changed).



Can you tell me what you mean by the above, please?

regards,
/alan

> There are some interesting points to be made on both the pros and cons
> of this whole thing, but this chap is obviously far too stupid to enage
> in any of that.


Too stupid to what?  Oh, spell Engage properly.

"Mr Smith"  wrote in message 
news:42c285df.2198343@news.btinternet.com...

> Intersting.
> I think Mr Geldoff is more interested in trying help people poor,
> starving & facing tortue <SNIP>


Maybe he should send them 75% of his paycheck every month then?  He is a 
fucking hypocrite.

Jim.

> At the risk of feeding the troll(s), I'd like to add that Mr Poo
> doesn't speak for all the residents of Edinburgh.



Just the majority :)

"Jim"  wrote in message 
news:da083q$n6d$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...

>> At the risk of feeding the troll(s), I'd like to add that Mr Poo
>> doesn't speak for all the residents of Edinburgh.
>
>
> Just the majority :)


....of trolls ;)

> ...of trolls ;)


I suggest you open your ears and eyes, and then take a serious reality 
check.  Edinburgh residents, overwhelmingly, do not want any of this "Lets 
make a fuss about poverty and change absolutely fuck all" pantomime.  It is 
a waste of time, a waste of money, and will achieve absolutely nothing 
except tarnish Sir Geldoff's already faltering reputation.

Get a grip - what the hell are a bunch of anarchists and left wing nutters 
going to get done by marching through our streets?

Why can't you all fuck off to a remote scottish island and have a drug 
induced hippy love fest, I hear in Mull they have strange mushrooms growing 
in certain areas.

Jim.

"Jim"  wrote in message 
news:da0a0c$7ur$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...


>> ...of trolls ;)

> Why can't you all fuck off to a remote scottish island and have a drug 
> induced hippy love fest, I hear in Mull they have strange mushrooms 
> growing in certain areas.


I rest my case on that one :)


> I suggest you open your ears and eyes, and then take a serious reality 
> check.


I suggest you do the same. "Make Poverty History" was around long before 
Live8 and Sir Bob got involved and has nothing to do with anarchists, 
anti-capitalists and left wing nutters.


>Edinburgh residents, overwhelmingly, do not want any of this "Lets make a 
>fuss about poverty and change absolutely fuck all" pantomime.


I'm an Edinburgh resident and I want more to be done by the G8 about world 
poverty. I'm not interested in anarchy, anti-capitalism, or nutty left-wing 
politics (talking of which I did not vote for this Labour council unlike 
many Edinburgh residents). And I don't like mushrooms of any variety, but 
KFC isn't bad :)

Of course without any better arguments to justify your case, its easier for 
you to lump these various stereotypes together, hence the whole lame 'hippy' 
point.

Perhaps you could organise a "Plunder africa and make us richer" march and 
see if you get more support from Edinburgh residents?

The whole point of the MPH march is to register some public opinion in the 
absence of a referendum on aid/trade policies. Any amount of charity money 
is futile against the damage that these are doing.

George
 ps Anyone fancy a love fest?

> I'm an Edinburgh resident and I want more to be done by the G8 about
> world poverty.


Such as?

What *exactly* do you want them to do, or are you just going to wander
aimlessley around the streets of Edinburgh?


> (talking of which I did not vote for this Labour council unlike many
> Edinburgh residents).


Well, it's a start.


> And I don't like mushrooms of any variety, but KFC isn't bad :)

Steady.

> Perhaps you could organise a "Plunder africa and make us richer" march and
> see if you get more support from Edinburgh residents?


You seem to think that because we're not subscribing to the happy clappy
cause of wandering around the streets, we want Africa to be humped. That's
not necessarily the case.


> The whole point of the MPH march is to register some public opinion in
> the absence of a referendum on aid/trade policies.


we get a referendum on this every 4 or 5 years. Vote the fuckers out if
you don't like their foreign policy, or is that too hard to grasp for
these people?


> Any amount of charity money is futile against the damage that these are
> doing.


Damage? Writing off the debts of the countries that aren't as corrupt is
damaging is it?


>  ps Anyone fancy a love fest?


If it's all the same to you, no.

-- 
Steven Hill

As soon as you pull out the pin, Mister Hand Grenade stops being your friend.

"Steven Hill"  wrote in message 
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.0506301204280.23826-100000@kerouac.projectcolo.org.uk...

>> I'm an Edinburgh resident and I want more to be done by the G8 about
>> world poverty.
>
> Such as?
>
> What *exactly* do you want them to do, or are you just going to wander
> aimlessley around the streets of Edinburgh?


I *exactly* want them to make poverty history, see 
www.makepovertyhistory.org for more details.
That is the simple point of the march. I wander around aimlessly on other 
days.

What do *you* hope to achieve by saying nothing?


> You seem to think that because we're not subscribing to the happy clappy
> cause of wandering around the streets, we want Africa to be humped. That's
> not necessarily the case.


I'm not asking anybody else to march unless they want to, and if someone 
doesn't march it doesn't mean they are for or against poverty. It just 
doesn't mean anything.
However in Jim's case he is actively trying to disuade others from marching 
against poverty by tarring them with the same brush as various assorted 
nutters.


>> The whole point of the MPH march is to register some public opinion in
>> the absence of a referendum on aid/trade policies.
>
> we get a referendum on this every 4 or 5 years. Vote the fuckers out if
> you don't like their foreign policy, or is that too hard to grasp for
> these people?

True, and I for one have tried, but most people don't vote based on a single 
issue. Unfortunately many people don't vote on ANY issues, eg. just what 
their parents voted for.


>>  ps Anyone fancy a love fest?
>
> If it's all the same to you, no.

shame ;)

George

Jim  wrote:


>> At the risk of feeding the troll(s), I'd like to add that Mr Poo
>> doesn't speak for all the residents of Edinburgh.

> Just the majority :) 


Usually I'm in a majority of precisely one.

FoFP

Jim  wrote:


> Get a grip - what the hell are a bunch of anarchists and left wing nutters 
> going to get done by marching through our streets?


For the last frigging time: they are *not* anarchists.

Anarchist: someone who believes that no one should have political power
over another.


> Why can't you all fuck off to a remote scottish island and have a drug 
> induced hippy love fest


Your treat? Can we have Hawkwind up to play?

FoFP

> I *exactly* want them to make poverty history, see
> www.makepovertyhistory.org for more details.


I have posted (certainly to ed.general) about the three points that
makepovertyhistory want. I'll not repeat myself here. (Huzzah!)


> What do *you* hope to achieve by saying nothing?


I am not saying nothing, I just believe that wandering around the streets
providing cover for anarchists to put in windows is not the way to do
things.


> However in Jim's case he is actively trying to disuade others from
> marching against poverty by tarring them with the same brush as various
> assorted nutters.


Aren't you?


> True, and I for one have tried, but most people don't vote based on a
> single issue. Unfortunately many people don't vote on ANY issues, eg.
> just what their parents voted for.


Then perhaps there should be a protest against that sort of thing?

-- 
Steven Hill

Linux is like that drunk uncle that thinks he knows everything and
always tries to convince you he was a CIA operative, and when you
argue, he gets violent and then passes out.

> I am not saying nothing, I just believe that wandering around the streets
> providing cover for anarchists to put in windows is not the way to do
> things.


What *exactly* is the way to do things then? ;)



>> However in Jim's case he is actively trying to disuade others from
>> marching against poverty by tarring them with the same brush as various
>> assorted nutters.
>
> Aren't you?

As I said:
>I'm not asking anybody else to march unless they want to, and if someone
>doesn't march it doesn't mean they are for or against poverty. It just
>doesn't mean anything.


>> True, and I for one have tried, but most people don't vote based on a
>> single issue. Unfortunately many people don't vote on ANY issues, eg.
>> just what their parents voted for.
>
> Then perhaps there should be a protest against that sort of thing?


Indeed.

George

> > I am not saying nothing, I just believe that wandering around the streets
> > providing cover for anarchists to put in windows is not the way to do
> > things.
>
> What *exactly* is the way to do things then? ;)


Clearly, not marching and providing cover for anarchists and folks putting
in windows...

Most of the stuff the makepoverty history folks want is happening already,
and these marches have zero effect on that. The write off all African debt
is just not feasible at this stage, so protesting to have it written off
is really a march in favour of corrupt African dictators.

S.

-- 
Steven Hill

I am pink, therefore I am spam

"Steven Hill"  wrote in message 
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.0506301433170.28072-100000@kerouac.projectcolo.org.uk...

>> > I am not saying nothing, I just believe that wandering around the 
>> > streets
>> > providing cover for anarchists to put in windows is not the way to do
>> > things.
>>
>> What *exactly* is the way to do things then? ;)
>
> Clearly, not marching and providing cover for anarchists and folks putting
> in windows...


That's saying nothing in my book.
And if you really think MPH marchers will provide cover for anarchists 
you're wrong, in fact we'll all point at them.
They're scheduled for Monday anyway apparently. :)


> Most of the stuff the makepoverty history folks want is happening already,
> and these marches have zero effect on that. The write off all African debt
> is just not feasible at this stage, so protesting to have it written off
> is really a march in favour of corrupt African dictators.


If you say so Steve.

George

> > Most of the stuff the makepoverty history folks want is happening already,
> > and these marches have zero effect on that. The write off all African debt
> > is just not feasible at this stage, so protesting to have it written off
> > is really a march in favour of corrupt African dictators.
>
> If you say so Steve.


Tell me why I am wrong then, or is it not the case that you're only
interested in alleviating your middle class conscience by marching, and
haven't really thought this through?

"If you say so" isn't an answer in anyone's book.

-- 
Steven Hill

Your child may be an honor student, but you're still an idiot.

Steven Hill  writes:


> > > Most of the stuff the makepoverty history folks want is happening already,
> > > and these marches have zero effect on that. The write off all African debt
> > > is just not feasible at this stage, so protesting to have it written off
> > > is really a march in favour of corrupt African dictators.
> >
> > If you say so Steve.
> 
> Tell me why I am wrong then


The aims of MPH are rather wider than just debt cancelation.

-- 
distasteful, and arguably perverted

> > Tell me why I am wrong then
>
> The aims of MPH are rather wider than just debt cancelation.


The "Fair Trade" arguments are being dealt with by other folks. I have
already rambled about them in another thread.

The Aid argument too. Unless they have things they want not listed on
their website. Remember that most of the aid from a certain previous event
did very well at feeding armies of Africa.

S.

-- 
Steven Hill

"Remedy this situation, restore spice production, or you'll live out your
life in a pain amplifier!"
				- Spacing Guild Member, Dune

Steven Hill  writes:


> The Aid argument too. Unless they have things they want not listed
> on their website. Remember that most of the aid from a certain
> previous event did very well at feeding armies of Africa.


Maybe, but what's "a certain previous event" got to do with the price
of cheese?

-- 
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy

> Maybe, but what's "a certain previous event" got to do with the price
> of cheese?


It has everythign to do with it. Depending on the type of cheese.

Go on, educate me?

Why should we send more aid to people that clearly aren't benefitting from
it? It didn't help them the last time - how do YOU think things have
changed to make this a worthwhile exercise?

You can ignore the African countries whose governments have changed and
are no longer considered corrupt by the IMF, and are receiving debt relief
(and Aid) already.

S.

-- 
Steven Hill

"Non omne quod nitet aurum est"

"Steven Hill"  wrote in message 
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.0506301517360.29441-100000@kerouac.projectcolo.org.uk...

>> > Most of the stuff the makepoverty history folks want is happening 
>> > already,
>> > and these marches have zero effect on that. The write off all African 
>> > debt
>> > is just not feasible at this stage, so protesting to have it written 
>> > off
>> > is really a march in favour of corrupt African dictators.
>>
>> If you say so Steve.
>
> Tell me why I am wrong then, or is it not the case that you're only
> interested in alleviating your middle class conscience by marching, and
> haven't really thought this through?
>
> "If you say so" isn't an answer in anyone's book.


You're right, it isn't. I just got busier elsewhere, sorry.
Your previous answer wasn't much better though:

>> What *exactly* is the way to do things then? ;)
>
> Clearly, not marching and providing cover for anarchists and folks putting
> in windows...


Anyway, the MPH march serves only as an indicator to the powers that be of 
how popular the ideas are, no more, no less. I don't believe it is all 
happening already and any writing off of debt must be done carefully of 
course. My middle class conscience wouldn't be alleviated nor will my 
working class one. However I am prepared to stand up and be counted for 
something I regard as positive.

What does your classless conscience tell you to do Steve, having thought it 
through?

George

> > "If you say so" isn't an answer in anyone's book.
>
> You're right, it isn't. I just got busier elsewhere, sorry.
> Your previous answer wasn't much better though:


Oi! Answer the question!


> Anyway, the MPH march serves only as an indicator to the powers that be of
> how popular the ideas are, no more, no less.


So, they're marching because the governments involved in the G8 are
already doing the stuff they want? Fantastic.


> What does your classless conscience tell you to do Steve, having thought it
> through?


Did I say I had a conscience? Did I say I was marching and causing
inconvenience to thousands of Edinburgh residents? Did I say I had all the
answers?

-- 
Steven Hill

Klein bottle for sale.  Inquire within.

"M Holmes"  wrote in message
news:da0ov0$g8k$11@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...

> Jim  wrote:
>
> > Get a grip - what the hell are a bunch of anarchists and left wing
nutters
> > going to get done by marching through our streets?
>
> For the last frigging time: they are *not* anarchists.
>
> Anarchist: someone who believes that no one should have political power
> over another.
>
> > Why can't you all fuck off to a remote scottish island and have a drug
> > induced hippy love fest
>
> Your treat? Can we have Hawkwind up to play?


If Hawkwind do come, I'll get out my bunker, waddle through my barbed wire
and remember a more innocent drug frazzled era :)

>
> FoFP
>

"Steven Hill"  wrote in message 


> Clearly, not marching and providing cover for anarchists and folks putting
> in windows...


I'm an anarchist and I'll put in your bloody window unless you use the
term correctly.

FoFP

George  wrote:


> What does your classless conscience tell you to do Steve, having thought it 
> through?


Let's raise a pint to Africa at ed.beer8...

Anyone know anywhere selling African beer?

FoFP

"alan"  wrote in message
news:2qMwe.39533$Vo6.14182@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> "neutron" <neutron(not real)@a.b.c.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:d9v3q8$peb$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> > "alan"  wrote in message
> > news:UqBwe.13412$G2.1511@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> >> Here's what I don't understand.  People campaign against globalisation
on
> >> the grounds that the developed world exploits the underdeveloped world.
> > Yet
> >> in doing so, they effect a redistribution of wealth, laying off staff
in
> > the
> >> developed world and paying people in the underdeveloped one.
> >>
> >> What's so bad about that?
> >
> > Well, capitalism is all about massive, faceless companies that actually
> > show
> > a lot of psychopathic traits in the way they conduct business. That's
why
> > I
> > don't like the present capitalist system (I'm not a lefty, I just think
> > things should be changed).
>
>
> Can you tell me what you mean by the above, please?
>
> regards,
> /alan


Large companies work to maximise profits and often do so at their workers'
and the public's expense. They don't have much of a social conscience, and
psychologist have likened their operating methods to that of a psychopath.
the problem is the Limited Liability law on this country which lets
directors off the hook far too easily when they make bad or illegal
decisions. Directors and management in general is far too obsessed with
profits and nothing else.

M Holmes wrote:

> George  wrote:
> 
> 
>>What does your classless conscience tell you to do Steve, having thought it 
>>through?
> 
> 
> Let's raise a pint to Africa at ed.beer8...
> 
> Anyone know anywhere selling African beer?
> 


I've been to a morroccan restaurant in edinburgh that had morroccan beer which 
is slightly strange when it's supposed to be a muslim country.  It was pretty 
indistinguishable from any other copy of a german lager.  Where ever you're 
having ed.beer8 I hope no-one will be drinking anything from S&N.  The news is 
on the BBC website that the Fountainbridge site finally closed today.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4634689.stm

Stewart
-- 
You are about to enter... The Scary Door...

> Directors and management in general is far too obsessed with
> profits and nothing else.



You better fecking believe it boyo.

Directorship of a successful company:
- Freedom to come and go when you please
- Feel good factor about building something successful and worthwhile
- Providing a service which helps others, including your employees who earn 
money from YOUR business


Profit equates to:
- Big house & nice gardens
- Big house & nice gardens for family members
- Big house & nice gardens abroad for your private holidays (Rent it out 
when not used)
- Big house & nice gardens abroad for your friends & family to enjoy (Rent 
it out when not used)
- Excellent holidays for you and the family, every year, reducing stress 
levels and giving everyone some "chill out" time
- Being able to take you or your family to Bupa when they find a lump in a 
nasty place - on the same day, and be treated if need be that same week, 
regardless of how serious.  No more NHS.
- Being able to send your children to a respectable private school, helping 
them with their future career
- Being able to live without EVER worrying about bills, and generally paying 
for things
- Being able to purchase within reason, anything you desire, with no 
financial consequence.

Now do you understand how capitalism works, and why?  Right or wrong, people 
want a good life, people want money, people want the freedom to come and go 
as they please.  The flip side of the coin is, when a company gets 
relatively rich & powerful, they may choose to exploit the weak to grow even 
bigger - that's life unfortunately, people should be very careful about who 
and how much they work for.  If 25p a day is the best you can get, then 
tough shit - All the marching, whining and pissing & moaning in the world is 
going to do nothing to stop it.

As they say, ignorance is bliss.

Jimbob.

Boz  wrote:


>> > Why can't you all fuck off to a remote scottish island and have a drug
>> > induced hippy love fest

>> Your treat? Can we have Hawkwind up to play?

> If Hawkwind do come, I'll get out my bunker, waddle through my barbed wire
> and remember a more innocent drug frazzled era :)


I know someone who's trying to get them up during Worldcon in August,
but I'm not very optimistic about it.

One of these days I'll promote Brighawk (Scotland's own Hawkwind cover
band) to come over here for a gig and a bit of a party...

FoFP

"Jim"  wrote in message
news:da17rf$4e5$1$830fa7a5@news.demon.co.uk...

> > Directors and management in general is far too obsessed with
> > profits and nothing else.
>
>
> You better fecking believe it boyo.
>
> Directorship of a successful company:
> - Freedom to come and go when you please
> - Feel good factor about building something successful and worthwhile
> - Providing a service which helps others, including your employees who
earn
> money from YOUR business
>
>
> Profit equates to:
> - Big house & nice gardens
> - Big house & nice gardens for family members
> - Big house & nice gardens abroad for your private holidays (Rent it out
> when not used)
> - Big house & nice gardens abroad for your friends & family to enjoy (Rent
> it out when not used)
> - Excellent holidays for you and the family, every year, reducing stress
> levels and giving everyone some "chill out" time
> - Being able to take you or your family to Bupa when they find a lump in a
> nasty place - on the same day, and be treated if need be that same week,
> regardless of how serious.  No more NHS.
> - Being able to send your children to a respectable private school,
helping
> them with their future career
> - Being able to live without EVER worrying about bills, and generally
paying
> for things
> - Being able to purchase within reason, anything you desire, with no
> financial consequence.
>
> Now do you understand how capitalism works, and why?  Right or wrong,
people
> want a good life, people want money, people want the freedom to come and
go
> as they please.  The flip side of the coin is, when a company gets
> relatively rich & powerful, they may choose to exploit the weak to grow
even
> bigger - that's life unfortunately, people should be very careful about
who
> and how much they work for.  If 25p a day is the best you can get, then
> tough shit - All the marching, whining and pissing & moaning in the world
is
> going to do nothing to stop it.
>
> As they say, ignorance is bliss.
>
> Jimbob.
>
>


No, I think you look at things too simplistically.

alan wrote in ed.general 
 about: Re: G8 lefty twats - what's the deal?  Leave Edinburgh in peace. 


> There's nothing makes me feel more convinced that, for example, fox hunting 
> is right than the scum that protest against it.  Ditto vivisection.


Umm, it kinda goes without saying that anybody sufficiently committed to
a full-time 'career' as a protestor has to live outwith conventional
society (as it's a bit hard to get lots of days off work to
demonstrate), but that doesn't mean that lots of ordinary people don't
also support what they stand for (if not necessarily their actions).


-- 
David M. -- Edinburgh, Scotland.--[en, fr, (de)]--[reply-to valid <365d]
 Please feel free to help me by correcting my foreign language errors 
 Don't look lazy & stupid: Please trim & interleave quotes in replies 
*Research climate change on your computer: http://climateprediction.net*

In article  me@here.com wrote...


> I think Mr Geldoff is more interested in trying help people poor,
> starving & facing tortue than worrying about a few days of traffic
> problems that you you will have to deal with.


And I think Sir Geldolf just wants to be notorious again.


> Pesonally I do not give a shit about the worries you will have for a
> few days compared to most people in Africa.


Africa. Big place. Go south and you'll be hard pushed to miss it. Look
for all the civil wars and AIDS. Have a swell time.

Mike Dickson, Edinburgh, Scotland

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, M Holmes wrote:


> I'm an anarchist and I'll put in your bloody window unless you use the
> term correctly.


Mike, you are not allowed to put in my windows when you're in my flat
drinking my booze. It is considered impolite.

-- 
Steven Hill

I am pink, therefore I am spam

> No, I think you look at things too simplistically.


Damn right I do

money = security
money = freedom
money = luxury
money = leisure

I have missed so much that money can buy, but your right, it is all very 
simple - money CAN buy happiness.

Now go away and try and get rich, quick!

Jim.

In article <da16c5$idl$7@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> fofp@holyrood.ed.ac.uk wrote...


> Anyone know anywhere selling African beer?


The African restaurant that opens in Grindlay Court during the festival
was selling som kind of African beer last summer. It tasted like cheetah
piss, so it may have been authentic.

Mike Dickson, Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <da16pq$irq$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> nospam@ee.ed.ac.uk wrote...


> Where ever you're
> having ed.beer8 I hope no-one will be drinking anything from S&N.  The news is
> on the BBC website that the Fountainbridge site finally closed today.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4634689.stm


Yes, refusing to drink S&N beer is going to help the remaining S&N
workers no end.

Mike Dickson, Edinburgh, Scotland

> Directorship of a successful company:
> - Freedom to come and go when you please


As long as you trust your management/workers.


> - Feel good factor about building something successful and worthwhile

Granted, if it *is* successful and worthwhile.


> - Providing a service which helps others, including your employees who 
> earn money from YOUR business


Pay them a pittance while YOU cream off the profits!


> Profit equates to:
> - Big house & nice gardens
> - Big house & nice gardens for family members


You forgot:
Big house and nice gardens for your cat
Big house and nice gardens for your dog... etc.
How to spin out one point into several?


> - Excellent holidays for you and the family, every year, reducing stress 
> levels and giving everyone some "chill out" time


Ah, so high stress levels that need reducing regularly. Looking forward to 
that heart attack at 50?


> - Being able to take you or your family to Bupa when they find a lump in a 
> nasty place - on the same day, and be treated if need be that same week, 
> regardless of how serious.  No more NHS.


Playing your part in destroying the NHS for those that don't have BUPA.


> - Being able to send your children to a respectable private school, 
> helping them with their future career


Even if they are thick as mince, the old school tie will get them a job in 
management allowing them to botch up
companies/civil service resulting in more redundancies/strikes/wastage.


> - Being able to live without EVER worrying about bills, and generally 
> paying for things
> - Being able to purchase within reason, anything you desire, with no 
> financial consequence.


Depends on your lifestyle, I know some very high earners who still manage to 
spend more than they earn,
unsuccesfully pursuing happiness through material gain.


> Now do you understand how capitalism works, and why?  Right or wrong, 
> people want a good life, people want money, people want the freedom to 
> come and go as they please.


Sounds more like materialism to me. Most management/directors I know work 
all hours, totally stressed out,
just to keep a BMW in the driveway as it forms an integral part of their 
"happiness".

People want a good life, people want freedom, people want friendship, people 
want love.
People don't want to work 12+ hours a day.

George

"Jim"  wrote in message 
news:da1snj$6ri$1$830fa17d@news.demon.co.uk...

>> No, I think you look at things too simplistically.
>
> Damn right I do
>
> money = security
> money = freedom
> money = luxury
> money = leisure


Reminds me of an Abba song.


> I have missed so much that money can buy, but your right, it is all very 
> simple - money CAN buy happiness.
>
> Now go away and try and get rich, quick!


Duh, OK (How could I have missed this?)
Thank you Jim for saving my life and making me happy. ;)

George

ps. Lend us a tenner?

>> - Freedom to come and go when you please
>
> As long as you trust your management/workers.



What if you are management, and keep a very tight leash on your workers?


>> - Feel good factor about building something successful and worthwhile
> Granted, if it *is* successful and worthwhile.


Indeed, otherwise it is pointless.


>> - Providing a service which helps others, including your employees who 
>> earn money from YOUR business
>
> Pay them a pittance while YOU cream off the profits!


Some may choose to do that, but my attitude is treat your staff fairly and 
pay them well, and they will work 100 times harder for you.  Remember, it is 
important to have standards as an employee, and if you feel like the job has 
too little pay, try find another one.


>> - Excellent holidays for you and the family, every year, reducing stress 
>> levels and giving everyone some "chill out" time
>
> Ah, so high stress levels that need reducing regularly. Looking forward to 
> that heart attack at 50?


Not at all, stress exists with any job, I have relatively little stress 
since starting up, my last job was a nightmare, I wanted to crack in the 
end.  Now I can relax whenever i want to.


>> - Being able to take you or your family to Bupa when they find a lump in 
>> a nasty place - on the same day, and be treated if need be that same 
>> week, regardless of how serious.  No more NHS.
>
> Playing your part in destroying the NHS for those that don't have BUPA.


Hmm, use your brain.  I have a family Bupa policy, and something goes 
terribly wrong with a loved one.  Lets pretend it's cancer (god forbid).  By 
using BUPA, I am freeing up NHS resources for some other poor bugger to take 
advantage of, at the same time as giving my loved one a much better chance 
of recovery.


>> - Being able to send your children to a respectable private school, 
>> helping them with their future career
>
> Even if they are thick as mince, the old school tie will get them a job in 
> management allowing them to botch up
> companies/civil service resulting in more redundancies/strikes/wastage.


Thats complete bollocks.  By sending them to a private school, the chances 
are that they will grow up with more respectable children, and receive much 
greater discipline.  They shouild learn to be hard working & self 
motivating, good thinkers and problem solvers.  If you choose the right 
school, it can open up so many pathways for them as young adults.  Any 
"employer" who takes a twat on because of the school he went to will not be 
running a very succsessful business for long.  All employers I know have a 
good think and talk about who they employ, they check references and they in 
most cases ask the staff to work a trial period.  If the staff are pants, 
they go.


>> - Being able to live without EVER worrying about bills, and generally 
>> paying for things
>> - Being able to purchase within reason, anything you desire, with no 
>> financial consequence.
>
> Depends on your lifestyle, I know some very high earners who still manage 
> to spend more than they earn,
> unsuccesfully pursuing happiness through material gain.



So do I :)  Material gain wont make you trully happy, it makes you feel good 
granted, but will not bring you TRUE happiness.  Having enough money NEVER 
to worry about the bills and generally financing things though, takes a huge 
weight of your chest and allows you to concentrate on things that DO make 
you trully happy.



>> Now do you understand how capitalism works, and why?  Right or wrong, 
>> people want a good life, people want money, people want the freedom to 
>> come and go as they please.
>
> Sounds more like materialism to me. Most management/directors I know work 
> all hours, totally stressed out,
> just to keep a BMW in the driveway as it forms an integral part of their 
> "happiness".


Then most you know are obviously up against it and should really start to 
look at how they can make improvements in the business, allowing them to 
have a normal working routine.


> People want a good life, people want freedom, people want friendship, 
> people want love.
> People don't want to work 12+ hours a day.


I can understand that, better to have the best of both world's then is it 
not?  How about having the good life etc and working 4 hours a day, five 
days a week?  Don't tell me it's not possible.

Jimbobbery.

> Reminds me of an Abba song.


Not a very good one either!!!


>> I have missed so much that money can buy, but your right, it is all very 
>> simple - money CAN buy happiness.
>>
>> Now go away and try and get rich, quick!
>
> Duh, OK (How could I have missed this?)
> Thank you Jim for saving my life and making me happy. ;)


Man, no getting through lol.  Im 25, and hope one day to make it big time. 
I dream about making 20M and being able to tell my mum, put your feet up 
and relax, no more hard work for you.  I want to be able to buy my mum a 
nice house, as a little payback for all the hell I put her through as a 
child.  I have friends who have done so much for me, and helped me through 
the darkest times of my life, I would love to be able to help them all out. 
I want to have a big comfortable house, without thinking - in 5 years will I 
still be able to pay this mortgage?  Lastly, I DON'T WANT to be working when 
im 65 looking forward to shitty pension.  I want to work until im 30, and 
then retire with no need for a pension.

Jimbobbery.

> > - Being able to take you or your family to Bupa when they find a lump in a
> > nasty place - on the same day, and be treated if need be that same week,
> > regardless of how serious.  No more NHS.
>
> Playing your part in destroying the NHS for those that don't have BUPA.


Horseshit. They still pay NIC both company and individual. They just don't
use the NHS, since they're paying separately for BUPA. How is this a bad
thing, or is this another point you have completely failed to grasp?

-- 
Steven Hill

Klein bottle for sale.  Inquire within.

>> Playing your part in destroying the NHS for those that don't have BUPA.
>
> Hmm, use your brain.  I have a family Bupa policy, and something goes 
> terribly wrong with a loved one.  Lets pretend it's cancer (god forbid). 
> By using BUPA, I am freeing up NHS resources for some other poor bugger to 
> take advantage of, at the same time as giving my loved one a much better 
> chance of recovery.


Hmm, use your brain.
You think BUPA has a whole different set of consultants than the NHS?
Unfortunately not. The time they spend getting more money from BUPA is time 
not spent with NHS patients.
Hence the long waiting lists.
Everyone on these lists now gets a letter saying how much quicker they could 
get it privately. If you can't afford it, tough.
Ultimately doctors will want to spend more and more time doing private work 
as it pays better, leaving little for the NHS, even though it paid for all 
their training.

This results in better and better healthcare for the rich, worse and worse 
healthcare for the poor.

Ultimately, for one person to become richer, another must become poorer. 
Surely you can see this all over the world?

George

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:24:37 +0000, M Holmes wrote:


> George  wrote:
> 
>> What does your classless conscience tell you to do Steve, having thought it 
>> through?
> 
> Let's raise a pint to Africa at ed.beer8...
> 
> Anyone know anywhere selling African beer?
> 
> FoFP


Well, if South Africa counts, Miller's owned by SAB, so you wont have far
to look. Not that I'd recommend Miller for the flavour.

Also, many pubs sell Castle Lager.

Peter

Peter  wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:24:37 +0000, M Holmes wrote:

>> George  wrote:
>> 
>>> What does your classless conscience tell you to do Steve, having thought it 
>>> through?
>> 
>> Let's raise a pint to Africa at ed.beer8...
>> 
>> Anyone know anywhere selling African beer?

> Well, if South Africa counts, Miller's owned by SAB


Sorry.

Anyone know anywhere selling good African beer?

FoFP

>> Well, if South Africa counts, Miller's owned by SAB
> 
> Sorry.
> 
> Anyone know anywhere selling good African beer?


You should have said :-)

Ndebele opposite the Cameo might be a start? Not sure if there's anywhere
selling sorghum beer in Edinburgh.  Most other african beer seems to be a
variation on lager or pilsner.


Broader point: it's funny how South Africa hasn't come up in all the chat
about Africa here - is it because people don't like anything that breaks
the equation: African country = basket case ?

Well this is getting very interesting.

I have been both skint and had lotsa cash.
I have to say having money is better.
How does it enhance security though?
How does it make you happy? 
It guarantees nothing.
Not happyness or health.
I have personally known many relatively rich people who were in my
opinion messed up.

Money can be hard gained, easily gained and easily lost.

Personally I have had lots of money and then back to being relatively
skint then some of the way back again (complex reasons)
It has taught me that you dont have to have money to be content.
The being skint part told me that. 
I like to visit car boot sales & buy stuff quite cheap for example. I
see no reason not to do that even though now I can afford not to. 

Life is too short to worry about money alone - only when facing real
poverty.

A civilisation with a minority very rich and the rest very poor cannot
last especially when the poor have no chance to better themselfs.

I hope the protests do help change this situation for my selfish
reasons - for my own future in a just & stable world. Some
inconvieniance to Edinburgh for a week is worth the chance in my
opinion.

I think that 'Jim' is trying to make up for some issue he has -
personal, intellectual (or lack of) or who knows.


Lets hope a gang of lefty hippes camps outside jims house, decides to
stay & decimates his house value. If he does something stupid as a
result & loses his business maybe eventually he will learn what the
real value of money is.

Any intelligent replies appreciated.




On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 10:00:43 +0100, "Jim" 
wrote:


>>> - Freedom to come and go when you please
>>
>> As long as you trust your management/workers.
>
>
>What if you are management, and keep a very tight leash on your workers?
>
>>> - Feel good factor about building something successful and worthwhile
>> Granted, if it *is* successful and worthwhile.
>
>Indeed, otherwise it is pointless.
>
>>> - Providing a service which helps others, including your employees who 
>>> earn money from YOUR business
>>
>> Pay them a pittance while YOU cream off the profits!
>
>Some may choose to do that, but my attitude is treat your staff fairly and 
>pay them well, and they will work 100 times harder for you.  Remember, it is 
>important to have standards as an employee, and if you feel like the job has 
>too little pay, try find another one.
>
>>> - Excellent holidays for you and the family, every year, reducing stress 
>>> levels and giving everyone some "chill out" time
>>
>> Ah, so high stress levels that need reducing regularly. Looking forward to 
>> that heart attack at 50?
>
>Not at all, stress exists with any job, I have relatively little stress 
>since starting up, my last job was a nightmare, I wanted to crack in the 
>end.  Now I can relax whenever i want to.
>
>>> - Being able to take you or your family to Bupa when they find a lump in 
>>> a nasty place - on the same day, and be treated if need be that same 
>>> week, regardless of how serious.  No more NHS.
>>
>> Playing your part in destroying the NHS for those that don't have BUPA.
>
>Hmm, use your brain.  I have a family Bupa policy, and something goes 
>terribly wrong with a loved one.  Lets pretend it's cancer (god forbid).  By 
>using BUPA, I am freeing up NHS resources for some other poor bugger to take 
>advantage of, at the same time as giving my loved one a much better chance 
>of recovery.
>
>>> - Being able to send your children to a respectable private school, 
>>> helping them with their future career
>>
>> Even if they are thick as mince, the old school tie will get them a job in 
>> management allowing them to botch up
>> companies/civil service resulting in more redundancies/strikes/wastage.
>
>Thats complete bollocks.  By sending them to a private school, the chances 
>are that they will grow up with more respectable children, and receive much 
>greater discipline.  They shouild learn to be hard working & self 
>motivating, good thinkers and problem solvers.  If you choose the right 
>school, it can open up so many pathways for them as young adults.  Any 
>"employer" who takes a twat on because of the school he went to will not be 
>running a very succsessful business for long.  All employers I know have a 
>good think and talk about who they employ, they check references and they in 
>most cases ask the staff to work a trial period.  If the staff are pants, 
>they go.
>
>>> - Being able to live without EVER worrying about bills, and generally 
>>> paying for things
>>> - Being able to purchase within reason, anything you desire, with no 
>>> financial consequence.
>>
>> Depends on your lifestyle, I know some very high earners who still manage 
>> to spend more than they earn,
>> unsuccesfully pursuing happiness through material gain.
>
>
>So do I :)  Material gain wont make you trully happy, it makes you feel good 
>granted, but will not bring you TRUE happiness.  Having enough money NEVER 
>to worry about the bills and generally financing things though, takes a huge 
>weight of your chest and allows you to concentrate on things that DO make 
>you trully happy.
>
>
>>> Now do you understand how capitalism works, and why?  Right or wrong, 
>>> people want a good life, people want money, people want the freedom to 
>>> come and go as they please.
>>
>> Sounds more like materialism to me. Most management/directors I know work 
>> all hours, totally stressed out,
>> just to keep a BMW in the driveway as it forms an integral part of their 
>> "happiness".
>
>Then most you know are obviously up against it and should really start to 
>look at how they can make improvements in the business, allowing them to 
>have a normal working routine.
>
>> People want a good life, people want freedom, people want friendship, 
>> people want love.
>> People don't want to work 12+ hours a day.
>
>I can understand that, better to have the best of both world's then is it 
>not?  How about having the good life etc and working 4 hours a day, five 
>days a week?  Don't tell me it's not possible.
>
>Jimbobbery. 
>
>

> Well this is getting very interesting.
> I have been both skint and had lotsa cash.

Ditto.

> I have to say having money is better.


I will readily agree.


> How does it enhance security though?


It all depends on *how well* you are doing.  Business is funny, some 
businesses can dissappear overnight, others can last relatively cash rich 
for decades with little or no hassle.


> How does it make you happy?


It allows you the time to chill out, spend time with loved ones, and focus 
on "non financial" worries.


> It guarantees nothing.


You are correct.


> Not happyness or health.

Agreed.

> I have personally known many relatively rich people who were in my
> opinion messed up.


I have known lots of skint people, less rich.


> Money can be hard gained, easily gained and easily lost.

yup.

> Personally I have had lots of money and then back to being relatively
> skint then some of the way back again (complex reasons)


Easily done, I am sure.


> It has taught me that you dont have to have money to be content.
> The being skint part told me that.


I was brought up in probably the hardest part of Edinburgh, and my mum still 
lives there.  I can relate fully.


> I like to visit car boot sales & buy stuff quite cheap for example. I
> see no reason not to do that even though now I can afford not to.


Quite right, me too.


> Life is too short to worry about money alone - only when facing real
> poverty.


I grew up with absolute and horrific real poverty - and getting permanently 
away from it is one of my main goals in life.


> A civilisation with a minority very rich and the rest very poor cannot
> last especially when the poor have no chance to better themselfs.


The poor, in this country, always have a chance to better themselves.


> I hope the protests do help change this situation for my selfish
> reasons - for my own future in a just & stable world. Some
> inconvieniance to Edinburgh for a week is worth the chance in my
> opinion.


It aint gonna work.  Get of your arse and do it for yourself.



> I think that 'Jim' is trying to make up for some issue he has -
> personal, intellectual (or lack of) or who knows.


Yup I have many issues, one of them is never being skint EVER again, I know 
it is not an enjoyable existance.

"Mr Smith"  wrote in message 
news:42c568a6.332406@news.btinternet.com...

> Well this is getting very interesting.


By the way 'Mr Smith', I suggest YOU take a wander along YOUR Rose Street 
this evening, and then have another bash at posting your rhetoric bullshit 
here.,  see how you feel after seeing YOUR city decimated and vandalised, 
remember *if* you actually live here, you will be the one paying for it. 
That is a hell of a big "if" - I suspect you will be on the last train back 
to Skintsville after this pantomime.

Jimbobbery.

"Mr Smith"  wrote in message
news:42c285df.2198343@news.btinternet.com...

> Intersting.
>  I think Mr Geldoff is more interested in trying help people poor,
> starving & facing tortue than worrying about a few days of traffic
> problems that you you will have to deal with. Pesonally I do not give
> a shit about the worries you will have for a few days compared to most
> people in Africa.


And that callous lack of concern is why none of us now give a shit about the
issues the protestors are hoping to raise.  As I have said so many times now
(sigh) alienated people will not feel inclined to consider your arguments.

Tamzin

"Jim"  wrote in message
news:da42tf$8a$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...

>
> "Mr Smith"  wrote in message
> news:42c568a6.332406@news.btinternet.com...
> > Well this is getting very interesting.
>
> By the way 'Mr Smith', I suggest YOU take a wander along YOUR Rose Street
> this evening, and then have another bash at posting your rhetoric bullshit
> here.,  see how you feel after seeing YOUR city decimated and vandalised,


What has happened in Rose Street?  This city feels besieged, a breath away
from total destruction by invaders.  I guess thia is how it feels to be in a
city surrounded by war.

I'm scared.  The police apparently are expecting fatalities amongst their
numbers during this week of protests (not amongst the protestors please
note).  If the police are scared then I think that we residents ahould be
very scared indeed.

Tamzin

> What has happened in Rose Street?


Nothing deadly, a few childish scumbags have taken it upon themselves to 
start the "protest" early.  They have basically spraypainted any large white 
walls they could find with unoriginal, boring and "thick as shit" comments. 
They can't even spell properly, for example, today I read: "Bush and Blair 
war criminels" very clever :)

Most of the "protesters" are probably 16 - 17 year old unemployed skaterboys 
who have been brainwashed by a few socialist nutjobs whilst on a hash and 
booze binge back home.

Jimbobbery.


> This city feels besieged, a breath away
> from total destruction by invaders.  I guess thia is how it feels to be in 
> a
> city surrounded by war.


Thats what they want us to feel, the fact is though, they are a long way 
away from making any impact whatsoever.  A few cans of Spraypaint, and a 
waste of time march, the whole thing will be forgotten in a few weeks time, 
and nothing at all will have been accomplished.



> I'm scared.  The police apparently are expecting fatalities amongst their
> numbers during this week of protests (not amongst the protestors please
> note).


Highly unlikely, chill :)


> If the police are scared then I think that we residents ahould be
> very scared indeed.


The hippies are a bunch of idealistic zealots, with a few hardmen thrown in 
for good measure.  They don't have the capacity to cause any real harm to us 
or our city.

Jim.

In article <da4fhd$dbs$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,
Tamzin  wrote:


>What has happened in Rose Street?


I haven't been there today, but it's not really a very nice place
anyway.


>This city feels besieged, a breath away
>from total destruction by invaders.


Strange.  I was in the town centre at lunchtime and it felt like an
unusually pleasant summer day, marred only by the usual noisy Italian
tourists.  I was surprised how normal everything was.  Are you sure
you haven't been reading the Daily Mail?

-- Richard

"Tamzin"  wrote in message 
news:da4fhd$dbs$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...

>
> This city feels besieged, a breath away
> from total destruction by invaders.  I guess thia is how it feels to be in 
> a
> city surrounded by war.
>
> I'm scared.  The police apparently are expecting fatalities amongst their
> numbers during this week of protests (not amongst the protestors please
> note).  If the police are scared then I think that we residents ahould be
> very scared indeed.


Is this ed.general or the Daily Mail?

Jesus wept, get a grip.  A few crusties and a bit of rabble rousing - it's 
not quite Stalingrad yet, is it.

"Tamzin"  writes:


>"Jim"  wrote in message
>news:da42tf$8a$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
>>
>> "Mr Smith"  wrote in message
>> news:42c568a6.332406@news.btinternet.com...
>> > Well this is getting very interesting.
>>
>> By the way 'Mr Smith', I suggest YOU take a wander along YOUR Rose Street
>> this evening, and then have another bash at posting your rhetoric bullshit
>> here.,  see how you feel after seeing YOUR city decimated and vandalised,


As it happens I did my usual Saturday Rose St shopping today. This
decimation you're talking about must be some other Rose St.


>What has happened in Rose Street?  This city feels besieged, a breath away
>from total destruction by invaders.  I guess thia is how it feels to be in a
>city surrounded by war.


Rubbish. Nothing like it. Nothing even like London in the heyday of
IRA bombing, and that was very far indeed from being a city surrounded
by war.


>I'm scared.  The police apparently are expecting fatalities amongst their
>numbers during this week of protests (not amongst the protestors please
>note).  If the police are scared then I think that we residents ahould be
>very scared indeed.


And where did you hear this? Google news knows nothing of it. Sounds
to me like typical hysterical paranoid gossip.



--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB,  Informatics,  JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

> As it happens I did my usual Saturday Rose St shopping today. This
> decimation you're talking about must be some other Rose St.


I will happily post proof, I have about 15 images on my phone, mostly from 
around the Filling Station closer to the St Andrews Square end of Rose 
Street.  I should note that the council were out trying to "steam clean" the 
crap when I went for some food, when I left the Filling Station they had 
managed to "scorch" some of it off the wall, but had clearly given up with 
the rest.

Greggs the bakers in Rose Street was also vandalised, the graffiti was all 
over their white wall, they have now painted about 65% of it dark blue - two 
giant squares - looks bloody untidy but better than living with the shite 
that was written on it.

Also Castle Street, Frederick Street and Hanover Street has some graffiti 
but on a much less obvious scale.  It seems to be a "blue A" with a circle 
around it that is being sprayed everywhere.

Jim.

On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 23:25:37 +0100, "Tamzin"
 wrote:


> 
>
>"Jim"  wrote in message
>news:da42tf$8a$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
>>
>> "Mr Smith"  wrote in message
>> news:42c568a6.332406@news.btinternet.com...
>> > Well this is getting very interesting.
>>
>> By the way 'Mr Smith', I suggest YOU take a wander along YOUR Rose Street
>> this evening, and then have another bash at posting your rhetoric bullshit
>> here.,  see how you feel after seeing YOUR city decimated and vandalised,
>
>What has happened in Rose Street?  This city feels besieged, a breath away
>from total destruction by invaders.  I guess thia is how it feels to be in a
>city surrounded by war.
>
>I'm scared.  The police apparently are expecting fatalities amongst their
>numbers during this week of protests (not amongst the protestors please
>note).  If the police are scared then I think that we residents ahould be
>very scared indeed.
>
>Tamzin
>
>




Jeezes fuck where do people like you emerge from

"Jim"  wrote in message 
news:d9tqdh$qha$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...

> So,
>
> Not long to go before the lefty socialists try to "make their mark", 
> however things seem eerily normal for the time being.  I am hoping that 
> "Sir" Geldoff's dream falls flat on its face, and 1 million actually 
> becomes 1,000.
>
> What are your thoughts?  Lefties need not reply - I have already heard and 
> refuted your silly arguments hundred's of times before.
>
> Edinburgh residents, what do you see happening?  Any predictions?  Is it 
> all going to blow over without any major incidents?  Let's hope the 
> hippies go back to their druggy slums and leave all us hard working folk 
> to get on with life as normal.
>
> I for one can't wait to get back into the office to help pay for the new 
> BMW convertible.
>
> Jimbobbery.
> Christ ... you're a wlking cliche mate! Pencilled in your 1st heart attack 
> already? 

>> Jimbobbery.
>> Christ ... you're a wlking cliche mate! Pencilled in your 1st heart 
>> attack already?


No risk of a heart attack here "mate", I work relatively stress free for 4 
or 5 hours a day, no hassles.

Jim.

"Jim"  wrote in message 
news:da6a33$67l$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...

>>> Jimbobbery.
>>> Christ ... you're a wlking cliche mate! Pencilled in your 1st heart 
>>> attack already?
>
> No risk of a heart attack here "mate", I work relatively stress free for 4 
> or 5 hours a day, no hassles.
>
> Jim.
> I'm so relieved! 

"Jim"  wrote in message
news:da4hip$l7v$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...


> > (Moi):

        This city feels besieged, a breath away

> > from total destruction by invaders.  I guess thia is how it feels to be
in
> > a
> > city surrounded by war.
>
> Thats what they want us to feel, the fact is though, they are a long way
> away from making any impact whatsoever.  A few cans of Spraypaint, and a
> waste of time march, the whole thing will be forgotten in a few weeks
time,
> and nothing at all will have been accomplished.


I think you are right. After all my worrying I got to and from the stables
very quickly today.  I set out at about 9.30 before the march started and
went home at about 1.15 while the marchers were all safely cooped up in the
city centre so I managed to avoid the crowds going to and from the march.
There was very little traffic about - everyone who wasn't maching clearly
decided to stay away - so I just sailed about in the curiously empty
streets.   London Road felt very weird with no parked cars.

Tamzin

Having just got back in from Glasgow, so I have been going against the
flow physically and politically all day. The streets were busy enough,
and the chaps I know at Waverley were happy enough with the folk today.
I stopped to chat with a chap from Fife Constabulary, who mentioned there
had been a bit of trouble earlier, but it was seen off by riot police.
I think the BBC site has something in there about it, but no real mention
of the scale of the problem.

Interesting on my wandering back up the mound from the station that there
were so many places you got a really strong smell of weed.

-- 
Steven Hill

This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

"jon"  wrote in message
news:3im0pdFlokdfU1@individual.net...

> "Tamzin"  wrote in message
> news:da4fhd$dbs$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > This city feels besieged, a breath away
> > from total destruction by invaders.  I guess thia is how it feels to be
in
> > a
> > city surrounded by war.
> >
> > I'm scared.  The police apparently are expecting fatalities amongst
their
> > numbers during this week of protests (not amongst the protestors please
> > note).  If the police are scared then I think that we residents ahould
be
> > very scared indeed.
>
> Is this ed.general or the Daily Mail?
>


Sorry - I've never read the Daily Mail in my life.  I dislike tabloids.  My
only affliction is an over-active imagination and a genetic predisposition
to worrying.

Tamzin

"auldreekie"  wrote in message
news:mhmcc1p5einhg6uudch9a4sbmuto2kv7t6@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 23:25:37 +0100, "Tamzin"
>  wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >"Jim"  wrote in message
> >news:da42tf$8a$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> >>
> >> "Mr Smith"  wrote in message
> >> news:42c568a6.332406@news.btinternet.com...
> >> > Well this is getting very interesting.
> >>
> >> By the way 'Mr Smith', I suggest YOU take a wander along YOUR Rose
Street
> >> this evening, and then have another bash at posting your rhetoric
bullshit
> >> here.,  see how you feel after seeing YOUR city decimated and
vandalised,
> >
> >What has happened in Rose Street?  This city feels besieged, a breath
away
> >from total destruction by invaders.  I guess thia is how it feels to be
in a
> >city surrounded by war.
> >
> >I'm scared.  The police apparently are expecting fatalities amongst their
> >numbers during this week of protests (not amongst the protestors please
> >note).  If the police are scared then I think that we residents ahould be
> >very scared indeed.
>
> Jeezes fuck where do people like you emerge from


Charmed to meet you too I'm sure.

Tamzin

"Chris Malcolm"  wrote in message
news:da4iqa$5ic$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...

> "Tamzin"  writes:
>
>
> >I'm scared.  The police apparently are expecting fatalities amongst their
> >numbers during this week of protests (not amongst the protestors please
> >note).  If the police are scared then I think that we residents ahould be
> >very scared indeed.
>
> And where did you hear this? Google news knows nothing of it. Sounds
> to me like typical hysterical paranoid gossip.


Friend of mine who works at Fettes actually.

Tamzin

> Friend of mine who works at Fettes actually.


One assumes that's Fettes as in the Police HQ, and not the College?

:-)

-- 
Steven Hill

This is not the signature that you are looking for

"Jim"  writes:


>> As it happens I did my usual Saturday Rose St shopping today. This
>> decimation you're talking about must be some other Rose St.

>I will happily post proof, I have about 15 images on my phone, mostly from 
>around the Filling Station closer to the St Andrews Square end of Rose 
>Street.  I should note that the council were out trying to "steam clean" the 
>crap when I went for some food, when I left the Filling Station they had 
>managed to "scorch" some of it off the wall, but had clearly given up with 
>the rest.

>Greggs the bakers in Rose Street was also vandalised, the graffiti was all 
>over their white wall, they have now painted about 65% of it dark blue - two 
>giant squares - looks bloody untidy but better than living with the shite 
>that was written on it.

>Also Castle Street, Frederick Street and Hanover Street has some graffiti 
>but on a much less obvious scale.  It seems to be a "blue A" with a circle 
>around it that is being sprayed everywhere.


I queried your claim of decimation, and you tell you some kids have
been spraypainting badly spelt slogans? I thought you were trying to
worry us that something threatening was happening?

Talking of kids who can't spell, do you actually know what
decimation means?
--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB,  Informatics,  JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

"Tamzin"  writes:


>"Chris Malcolm"  wrote in message
>news:da4iqa$5ic$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...
>> "Tamzin"  writes:
>>
>> >I'm scared.  The police apparently are expecting fatalities amongst their
>> >numbers during this week of protests (not amongst the protestors please
>> >note).  If the police are scared then I think that we residents ahould be
>> >very scared indeed.

>> And where did you hear this? Google news knows nothing of it. Sounds
>> to me like typical hysterical paranoid gossip.

>Friend of mine who works at Fettes actually.


As I suspected, then.



--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB,  Informatics,  JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

"Chris Malcolm"  wrote in message 
news:da6qog$g6q$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...

>>Friend of mine who works at Fettes actually.
>
> As I suspected, then


I was at the Meadows today for that little walk round town, was with my mum, 
and she mentioned that a woman at work, whose son works for the Police was 
advised not to be anywhere near the city centre today. What a lot of old 
pony! Today was a very good natured march/protest/demonstration, with people 
of all backgrounds and different age groups enjoying the day. Why is it some 
people take things a little too literally. Her son probably meant 
parking/traffic could be difficult, not that WWIII would break out!

-- 

!Speedy Gonzales!

to reply, remove the 'OBVIOUS'

"Tamzin"  wrote in message 
news:da6lpt$7gg$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...

>
> Sorry - I've never read the Daily Mail in my life.  I dislike tabloids. 
> My
> only affliction is an over-active imagination and a genetic predisposition
> to worrying.


Deep breaths ... and relax.

Jim wrote:

> "Mr Smith"  wrote in message 
> news:42c568a6.332406@news.btinternet.com...
> 
>>Well this is getting very interesting.
> 
> 
> By the way 'Mr Smith', I suggest YOU take a wander along YOUR Rose Street 
> this evening, and then have another bash at posting your rhetoric bullshit 
> here.,  see how you feel after seeing YOUR city decimated 


Which city was decimated? I certainly haven't heard of any deaths 
recently relating to G8/protests.

Steven Hill wrote:

> Having just got back in from Glasgow, so I have been going against the
> flow physically and politically all day. The streets were busy enough,
> and the chaps I know at Waverley were happy enough with the folk today.
> I stopped to chat with a chap from Fife Constabulary, who mentioned there
> had been a bit of trouble earlier, but it was seen off by riot police.
> I think the BBC site has something in there about it, but no real mention
> of the scale of the problem.
> 
> Interesting on my wandering back up the mound from the station that there
> were so many places you got a really strong smell of weed.
> 


On the Forth Road Bridge today, there were two police constables at each 
end of the footpaths on each side, presumably to stop any people who 
looked like them might try to dangle from the bridge

"Steven Hill"  wrote in message 
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.0507021909560.16779-100000@kerouac.projectcolo.org.uk...

>
> Having just got back in from Glasgow, so I have been going against the
> flow physically and politically all day. The streets were busy enough,
> and the chaps I know at Waverley were happy enough with the folk today.
> I stopped to chat with a chap from Fife Constabulary, who mentioned there
> had been a bit of trouble earlier, but it was seen off by riot police.
> I think the BBC site has something in there about it, but no real mention
> of the scale of the problem.
>
> Interesting on my wandering back up the mound from the station that there
> were so many places you got a really strong smell of weed.
>
> -- 
> Steven Hill
>
> This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
>

.... and your point is?

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 22:25:14 +0100 someone who may be Andrew
MacCormack  wrote this:-


>On the Forth Road Bridge today, there were two police constables at each 
>end of the footpaths on each side, presumably to stop any people who 
>looked like them might try to dangle from the bridge


Except that people could drive onto the bridge in a motor vehicle
and then dangle from the bridge.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Sun, 3 Jul 2005, AN Other wrote:


> ... and your point is?


I was simply reporting on what I had seen and heard.

-- 
Steven Hill

My other bomb is atomic

On Sun, 3 Jul 2005, David Hansen wrote:


> Except that people could drive onto the bridge in a motor vehicle
> and then dangle from the bridge.


I don't think they'd get away with that for long. Edinburgh and Fife
motorists aren't that forgiving.

-- 
Steven Hill

"Non omne quod nitet aurum est"

neutron wrote:


> Well, capitalism is all about massive, faceless companies that actually show
> a lot of psychopathic traits in the way they conduct business. That's why I
> don't like the present capitalist system (I'm not a lefty, I just think
> things should be changed).


Its interesting how many people I have met who work for such large 
faceless companies who refer to them as the capitalist equivalent of the 
Soviet Union.

TTH

On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 11:48:14 +0100 someone who may be Steven Hill
 wrote this:-


>> Except that people could drive onto the bridge in a motor vehicle
>> and then dangle from the bridge.
>
>I don't think they'd get away with that for long. Edinburgh and Fife
>motorists aren't that forgiving.


I think they'd "get away with" that for as long as they could do if
they dangled from any other part of the bridge.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

"Chris Malcolm"  wrote in message
news:da6qil$g63$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...

> Talking of kids who can't spell, do you actually know what
> decimation means?


Twas the Romans was of dealing with legions who had committed mutiny or been
cowardly.  One man in every ten (chosen at random so they say but I bet that
was not the case) was executed.  And the stigma of having been part of the
naughty legion doubtless dogged the steps of the survivors from then on. It
does  not mean near total destruction as is so often assumed.

Tamzin

"Chris Malcolm"  wrote in message
news:da6qog$g6q$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...

> "Tamzin"  writes:
>
> >"Chris Malcolm"  wrote in message
> >news:da4iqa$5ic$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...
> >> "Tamzin"  writes:
> >>
> >> >I'm scared.  The police apparently are expecting fatalities amongst
their
> >> >numbers during this week of protests (not amongst the protestors
please
> >> >note).  If the police are scared then I think that we residents ahould
be
> >> >very scared indeed.
>
> >> And where did you hear this? Google news knows nothing of it. Sounds
> >> to me like typical hysterical paranoid gossip.
>
> >Friend of mine who works at Fettes actually.
>
> As I suspected, then.


If you think so then I'm sure that I can't dissuade you.  The fact remains
that it was said by people fairly high up in the police hierarchy.  Whether
was based on a true risk assessment I do not know but it made me a lot more
worried than I would have been if it was the Daily Mail (which I have never
read but which seems to be accepted as a source of sensationalist rumours on
this ng though I suspect that the deeply offensive Sun is far more worthy of
contempt) which had said it.

Tamzin

"Steven Hill"  wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.0507021936560.17302-100000@kerouac.projectcolo.org.uk...

> > Friend of mine who works at Fettes actually.
>
> One assumes that's Fettes as in the Police HQ, and not the College?
>
> :-)
>

I'll keep you guessing on that one.  I do actually know someone who teaches
at Fettes the school as well.  They closed early for the summer holidays so
that all the precious little darlings could be well out of the way before G8
fever struck.  I suspect that they would be more likely to join the various
direct action activist groups than to be targets because they are the ones
who can rely on family to support them in their decision to be a full time
activist.

Tamzin

"Tamzin"  writes:


> I suspect that they would be more likely to join the various direct
> action activist groups than to be targets because they are the ones
> who can rely on family to support them in their decision to be a
> full time activist.


Whence comes this idea of "full time activist"? My ex-wife was one of
the local organisers of the MPH demo in Edinburgh, and she also has a
full-time job. Working for an US software company, for what that's
worth. Very radical. And not exactly atypical, from the pictures
I've seen of Saturdays demonstrators. Looked like a church fete...

-- 
I said "surprise me", not "disgust me"

"The Tattie Howker"  wrote in message
news:jfQxe.61481$G8.23665@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> neutron wrote:
>
> > Well, capitalism is all about massive, faceless companies that actually
show
> > a lot of psychopathic traits in the way they conduct business. That's
why I
> > don't like the present capitalist system (I'm not a lefty, I just think
> > things should be changed).
>


Once again I'd like to know why being a "lefty" is considered to be such a
bad thing by so many.  Am I the only person here who thinks that Thatcher
was a complete lunatic who created the prevailing self-serving attitude in
our society.  The adoration of talentless wannabe celebrities, the
deification of those who become rich, the expanding consumer debt incurred
by those wishing to create the facade of wealth, the acceptance as desirable
of complete lack of ethics in the pursuit of personal gain and the pure
selfishness which underlies so much of our lives are all down to her.  I
don't dent for one moment that the UK was stagnating before she came in and
would have declined into a morass of union versus government debacles but
she took it too far the other way and we are reaping the results now - just
check out the average twentysomething as catalogued on the squillions of
reality TV shows.  Are they really the sort of young people we want to be
creating in this country?

Anyway I'll stop now or I'll start writing an essay and bore you all to
tears.  Please just stop using "lefty" as a term of abuse or I'm going to
revert to my teenage years and start referring to the "evil fascist
right-wing scum" in response.

Tamzin

"August West"  wrote in message
news:87zmt3hp2s.fsf@news2.kororaa.com...

> "Tamzin"  writes:
>
> > I suspect that they would be more likely to join the various direct
> > action activist groups than to be targets because they are the ones
> > who can rely on family to support them in their decision to be a
> > full time activist.
>
> Whence comes this idea of "full time activist"? My ex-wife was one of
> the local organisers of the MPH demo in Edinburgh, and she also has a
> full-time job. Working for an US software company, for what that's
> worth. Very radical. And not exactly atypical, from the pictures
> I've seen of Saturdays demonstrators. Looked like a church fete...
>


I'm referring to those groups such as "Dissent" and the "wombles" who devote
their energies to direct action on the issues which concern them i.e
confrontation with any and everyone but most especially the police.  About
60 of them did in fact try to hijack the MPH march yetserday but were headed
off due to prompt action by the police for which I am very grateful.  Of
course one whey faced girl (not a member of the group concerned I believe)
was willing to stand in front of the TV cameras and complain about the
presence of riot police at her peaceful march despite the fact that said
riot police were the ones who kept it peaceful in the first place - only a
student could be so bloody naive.  I am in no doubt whatsoever that this
group wanted to sabotage the peaceful, happy looking march I saw on TV
yesterday by creating incidents.  Happily they were circumvented but will
now no doubt concentrate their efforts on the disruption they hope to cause
in the city centre tomorrow with their demonstration against "work" as they
term it.  As far as I'm concerned they can have as many riot police as they
want around to contain these fuckwits with their unorganised (and thus they
think unpolice-able) "spontaneous" outbursts of aggression against the
people of Edinburgh trying to go about their everyday business.  Ironic then
that most of these activists would not be able to continue with their
lifestyle were it not for all the people who work and pay taxes to support
them.

Tamzin

"Tamzin"  writes:


> I'm referring to those groups such as "Dissent" and the "wombles"
> who devote their energies to direct action on the issues which
> concern them i.e confrontation with any and everyone but most
> especially the police.


Who were not the organisers of the peaceful demo that so scared you on
Saturday.


> About 60 of them did in fact try to hijack the MPH march yetserday
> but were headed off due to prompt action by the police for which I
> am very grateful.


60, out of a (reported 225,000). Mmm, big threat of hijak there. And
none were even arrested.  As one (very middle-class criminal advocate)
demonstrator said to me last night "had they actually tried anything
on, 99% of the demonstrators would have been pointing them out to the
police, not joining in". The very fact that the MPF demonstrators were
dressed in white, and the self-styled "anarchists" in black suggests
quite how stupid, and out of place, they were.

As far as I can ascertain, the entire number arrested was ONE, and
that for drugs.  The hysteria evinced hereabouts about Saturday was
was just that: hysteria.  Wednesday may well be different, of course.

-- 
I'd rather have your jelly than my home-baked bread

On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:11:00 +0100 someone who may be "Tamzin"
 wrote this:-


>About
>60 of them did in fact try to hijack the MPH march yetserday but were headed
>off due to prompt action by the police for which I am very grateful.


Possibly, possibly not. I think it highly unlikely that "dangerous
subversives", to paraphrase you I hope accurately, would dress all
in black and with masks on a day when almost everyone else was
wearing white. That makes all the lights on my bullshit detector
glow brightly. Perhaps I overestimate their intelligence, as far as
I know I have never met one.

Of course there were a group of people dressed all in black wearing
masks. They had the letters POLICE on their clothes.



-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

> Of course there were a group of people dressed all in black wearing
> masks. They had the letters POLICE on their clothes.


What's this? Hansen macro #4 or #5?

-- 
Steven Hill

WANTED: Dead or Alive -- Schrodeinger's Cat

Steven Hill  writes:


> > Of course there were a group of people dressed all in black wearing
> > masks. They had the letters POLICE on their clothes.
> 
> What's this? Hansen macro #4 or #5?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/lizzib/DSC03196a.jpg

-- 
all I really want to do...

> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/lizzib/DSC03196a.jpg


It's a photo of some chaps getting ready to make sure you lot don't loot
and pillage? Your point is?

-- 
Steven Hill

"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the juice of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed,
the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning.
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion."
				- Piter De Vries, Dune.

In article , 
SENDdavidNOhSPAM@spidacom.co.uk says...

> On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:11:00 +0100 someone who may be "Tamzin"
>  wrote this:-
> 
> >About
> >60 of them did in fact try to hijack the MPH march yetserday but were headed
> >off due to prompt action by the police for which I am very grateful.
> 
> Possibly, possibly not. I think it highly unlikely that "dangerous
> subversives", to paraphrase you I hope accurately, would dress all
> in black and with masks on a day when almost everyone else was
> wearing white. That makes all the lights on my bullshit detector
> glow brightly. 


You must use some amount of batteries and bulbs in that detector.

Jim

In article  august@kororaa.com wrote...


> Whence comes this idea of "full time activist"?


It's exactly the same as 'unemployed activist'.

Mike Dickson, Edinburgh, Scotland

Steven Hill  writes:


> > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/lizzib/DSC03196a.jpg
> 
> It's a photo of some chaps getting ready to make sure you lot don't
> loot and pillage?


"You lot"? Me, I was in Cambridge!


> Your point is?


I was simply illustrating the police in black combat outfits.

-- 
something for the weekend?

In article  SENDdavidNOhSPAM@spidacom.co.uk wrote...


> Of course there were a group of people dressed all in black wearing
> masks. They had the letters POLICE on their clothes.


Would you prefer that they weren't there?

Mike Dickson, Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <da91ls$3un$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk> tamzincebula@DEFYMEtheponies.freeserve.co.uk wrote...


> Once again I'd like to know why being a "lefty" is considered to be
> such a bad thing by so many.


Perhaps because the last time truly left-wing politics has been tried in
this country they failed miserably. Put it this way - name the left wing
political parties extant in the UK that are not comedy items.


> Am I the only person here who thinks that Thatcher was a complete
> lunatic who created the prevailing self-serving attitude in our
> society.


No, because I would largely agree with you. Would you also agree that -
like her or loathe her - she also turned this country (*) around from
the miserable *shitehole* it was in the 1970s?

Mike Dickson, Edinburgh, Scotland

(*) Meaning the UK

In article <da92au$a2m$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> tamzincebula@DEFYMEtheponies.freeserve.co.uk wrote...


> Of course one whey faced girl (not a member of the group concerned I
> believe) was willing to stand in front of the TV cameras and complain
> about the presence of riot police at her peaceful march despite the
> fact that said riot police were the ones who kept it peaceful in the
> first place - only a student could be so bloody naive.


That's a fairly common tactic - blaming the onset of a riot on the fact
that there were riot police there to 'provoke' the incident. English
football fans have been using that tired bollocks for years now.

Mike Dickson, Edinburgh, Scotland

On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:37:52 UTC, August West  
wrote:


> Steven Hill  writes:
> 
> > > Of course there were a group of people dressed all in black wearing
> > > masks. They had the letters POLICE on their clothes.
> > 
> > What's this? Hansen macro #4 or #5?
> 
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/lizzib/DSC03196a.jpg


I can't see any masks there. Helmets, yes. Masks, no.

Ian

On 3 Jul 2005 22:17:29 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
 wrote this:-


>> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/lizzib/DSC03196a.jpg
>
>I can't see any masks there. Helmets, yes. Masks, no.


The masks go under the helmets.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

"Ian Johnston"  writes:


> On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:37:52 UTC, August West  
> wrote:
> 
> > Steven Hill  writes:
> > 
> > > > Of course there were a group of people dressed all in black wearing
> > > > masks. They had the letters POLICE on their clothes.
> > > 
> > > What's this? Hansen macro #4 or #5?
> > 
> > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/lizzib/DSC03196a.jpg
> 
> I can't see any masks there. Helmets, yes. Masks, no.


On the other hand, you can't see any faces, either.

Incidentally, is that Causewayside?
-- 
Anyone for the last few choc ices, now?

On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:23:15 UTC, David Hansen 
 wrote:


> On 3 Jul 2005 22:17:29 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
>  wrote this:-
> 
> >> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/lizzib/DSC03196a.jpg
> >
> >I can't see any masks there. Helmets, yes. Masks, no.
> 
> The masks go under the helmets.


There is no evidence of that in the photograph. Do they wear "Barbie" 
T-shirts under the body armour too?

Ian

"Jim"  writes:


> > As it happens I did my usual Saturday Rose St shopping today. This
> > decimation you're talking about must be some other Rose St.
> 
> I will happily post proof, I have about 15 images on my phone, mostly from 
> around the Filling Station closer to the St Andrews Square end of Rose 
> Street.  I should note that the council were out trying to "steam clean" the 
> crap when I went for some food, when I left the Filling Station they had 
> managed to "scorch" some of it off the wall, but had clearly given up with 
> the rest.
> 
> Greggs the bakers in Rose Street was also vandalised, the graffiti was all 
> over their white wall, they have now painted about 65% of it dark blue - two 
> giant squares - looks bloody untidy but better than living with the shite 
> that was written on it.
> 
> Also Castle Street, Frederick Street and Hanover Street has some graffiti 
> but on a much less obvious scale.  It seems to be a "blue A" with a circle 
> around it that is being sprayed everywhere.


I got a few shots of the graffiti along Rose St on Thursday night:

  http://www.pbase.com/wangi/g8

L/

David Hansen wrote:

> On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:11:00 +0100 someone who may be "Tamzin"
>  wrote this:-
> 
> 
>>About
>>60 of them did in fact try to hijack the MPH march yetserday but were headed
>>off due to prompt action by the police for which I am very grateful.
> 
> 
> Possibly, possibly not. I think it highly unlikely that "dangerous
> subversives", to paraphrase you I hope accurately, would dress all
> in black and with masks on a day when almost everyone else was
> wearing white. That makes all the lights on my bullshit detector
> glow brightly. Perhaps I overestimate their intelligence, as far as
> I know I have never met one.
> 
> Of course there were a group of people dressed all in black wearing
> masks. They had the letters POLICE on their clothes.


You forgot about the bright green/yellow dayglo part of their outfit.

TTH

August West wrote:


> Steven Hill  writes:
> 
> 
>>>Of course there were a group of people dressed all in black wearing
>>>masks. They had the letters POLICE on their clothes.
>>
>>What's this? Hansen macro #4 or #5?
> 
> 
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/lizzib/DSC03196a.jpg
> 

Try this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4644565.stm

TTH

On 3 Jul 2005 22:32:40 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
 wrote this:-


>> The masks go under the helmets.
>
>There is no evidence of that in the photograph.


The officer on the right is probably putting one on.

However, you can see one under the helmet on the bottom picture at
http://www.lbp.police.uk/publications/anrep99/elr/elr-04.htm. It is
not pulled down to just reveal the eyes, but this can be done.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

Jim  wrote:


> Also Castle Street, Frederick Street and Hanover Street has some graffiti 
> but on a much less obvious scale.  It seems to be a "blue A" with a circle 
> around it that is being sprayed everywhere.


Probably fans of Asterix the Gaul.

FoFP

David Hansen  wrote:

> On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:11:00 +0100 someone who may be "Tamzin"
>  wrote this:-

>>About
>>60 of them did in fact try to hijack the MPH march yetserday but were headed
>>off due to prompt action by the police for which I am very grateful.

> Possibly, possibly not. I think it highly unlikely that "dangerous
> subversives", to paraphrase you I hope accurately, would dress all
> in black and with masks on a day when almost everyone else was
> wearing white. That makes all the lights on my bullshit detector
> glow brightly.


It's true David. I saw 'em. It must have been bloody hot in all that
gear. The cops were quite clever: they just surrounded them and let the
sweat until they were too disheartened to bother anyone. I heard they
let 'em all go later.


> Perhaps I overestimate their intelligence, as far as
> I know I have never met one.

Could be.

> Of course there were a group of people dressed all in black wearing
> masks. They had the letters POLICE on their clothes.


The ones I talked to all seemed to be in as good a mood as the
protestors. I thought the whole thing was quite pleasant really, though
the whole thing where every little leftie group got to say their two
minutes worth made for extremely dull speeches.

Quite a few people chuckled at my "I <Heart> Capitalism" t-shirt and a
couple of folks took photos. I did notice a number of "Trade Not Aid"
and "Free Trade is Fair Trade" shirts too. I also heard that a group of
Mancunians hijacked the front of the march for a bit with signs saying
"Bring Back Slavery!" and similar, but I didn't spot them.

Something kicked off earlier though: about 25 vans full of cops left
George Square with their sirens going. One cop said they'd been called
out to the West End.

FoFP

jon  wrote:


> Is this ed.general or the Daily Mail?

> Jesus wept, get a grip.  A few crusties and a bit of rabble rousing - it's 
> not quite Stalingrad yet, is it. 


It's the graffitti with spelling errors that's the worst...

FoFP

Tamzin  wrote:


> Once again I'd like to know why being a "lefty" is considered to be such a
> bad thing by so many.


I dunno, but it's good innit?


> Am I the only person here who thinks that Thatcher was a complete
> lunatic who created the prevailing self-serving attitude in our
> society.  The adoration of talentless wannabe celebrities, the
> deification of those who become rich, the expanding consumer debt
> incurred by those wishing to create the facade of wealth, the
> acceptance as desirable of complete lack of ethics in the pursuit of
> personal gain and the pure selfishness which underlies so much of our
> lives are all down to her. 


I think that's about as accurate as Thatcher's claim that It Wos The
Sixties Wot Dun It.


> Tamzin


FoFP

On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 12:56:48 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be M Holmes
 wrote this:-


>It's true David. I saw 'em.


The question is, who did you see? It seems that a group of people
dressed in black were surrounded by another group of people dressed
in black, the latter replaced after a time by people dressed in
black and yellow. The supposedly "dangerous subversives" were then
allowed to wander off.


>the whole thing where every little leftie group got to say their two
>minutes worth made for extremely dull speeches.


Leftie speeches are generally dull.


>Something kicked off earlier though: about 25 vans full of cops left
>George Square with their sirens going. One cop said they'd been called
>out to the West End.


There does seem to be some trouble at the moment.



-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen wrote:

> 
>>Something kicked off earlier though: about 25 vans full of cops left
>>George Square with their sirens going. One cop said they'd been called
>>out to the West End.
> 
> 
> There does seem to be some trouble at the moment.
> 


According to 5 live the Princes street mob are somewhere around about 
Jenners/Scott Monument being held back from going back to the West End where 
they started off.  More annoyed by the 5-live reporter continually calling it 
"Princess Street".  We've apparently been told by security to lock the doors to 
the buildings which seems a bit over the top for Kings Buildings.

Stewart
-- 
You are about to enter... The Scary Door...

Stewart Smith wrote:

> We've apparently been told by security to lock the doors to
> the buildings which seems a bit over the top for Kings Buildings.


Seems a little over the top, certainly. Just how much damage do they
think you'd do if you got out?

susan wrote:

> 
> Stewart Smith wrote:
> 
>>We've apparently been told by security to lock the doors to
>>the buildings which seems a bit over the top for Kings Buildings.
> 
> 
> Seems a little over the top, certainly. Just how much damage do they
> think you'd do if you got out?
> 


Depends if there's any beer in my way :)

Stewart

-- 
You are about to enter... The Scary Door...

On 3 Jul 2005 22:32:40 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
 wrote this:-


>> The masks go under the helmets.
>
>There is no evidence of that in the photograph. 


A photograph of masked policemen in Edinburgh today. This time only
their eyes are visible through the mask, in the last photograph I
mentioned their eyes and nose were visible.

Note also that these unidentifiable bods have no numbers on their
uniform (the numbers on the back of helmets are tactical numbers,
not individual ones). They do have the letters POLICE on their
clothes though.

http://www.pbase.com/wangi/image/45695606

Supposing a member of the black bloc had attacked you, as people
have already claimed. How would you be able to accuse them in court?


Meanwhile they are not the only police officers who are keen not to
be identified. The numbers of the police bods in the video linked
from http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/315977.html did not all
accidentally fall off.





-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

> Note also that these unidentifiable bods have no numbers on their
> uniform (the numbers on the back of helmets are tactical numbers,
> not individual ones). They do have the letters POLICE on their
> clothes though.


I should think you would be able to identify the officer from the
"tactical" number on the helmet. Once again, Hansen macro #4 does not
wash.

S.

-- 
Steven Hill

Sam:  What's new, Normie?
Norm: Terrorists, Sam.  They've taken over my stomach.
      They're demanding beer.
- Cheers, The Heart is a Lonely Snipehunter

Steven Hill wrote:

>>Note also that these unidentifiable bods have no numbers on their
>>uniform (the numbers on the back of helmets are tactical numbers,
>>not individual ones). They do have the letters POLICE on their
>>clothes though.
> 
> 
> I should think you would be able to identify the officer from the
> "tactical" number on the helmet. Once again, Hansen macro #4 does not
> wash.
> 


Hard to read the backs of their helmets.  Probably even harder if they're waving 
a baton in your face.  The fact is that uniformed police officers are supposed 
to disply their numbers so that they can be identified.  There is no real way 
for anyone to identify one of these officers so that a complaint can be made 
against them for whatever reason.  I can fully understand that riot police have 
to wear protective clothing but I can't think of a legitimate reason that they 
should have their identities concealed from the people they are supposedly serving.

Stewart
-- 
You are about to enter... The Scary Door...

M Holmes wrote:


> David Hansen  wrote:
> 
>>On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:11:00 +0100 someone who may be "Tamzin"
>> wrote this:-
> 
> 
>>>About
>>>60 of them did in fact try to hijack the MPH march yetserday but were headed
>>>off due to prompt action by the police for which I am very grateful.
> 
> 
>>Possibly, possibly not. I think it highly unlikely that "dangerous
>>subversives", to paraphrase you I hope accurately, would dress all
>>in black and with masks on a day when almost everyone else was
>>wearing white. That makes all the lights on my bullshit detector
>>glow brightly.
> 
> 
> It's true David. I saw 'em. It must have been bloody hot in all that
> gear. The cops were quite clever: they just surrounded them and let the
> sweat until they were too disheartened to bother anyone. I heard they
> let 'em all go later.
> 
> 
>>Perhaps I overestimate their intelligence, as far as
>>I know I have never met one.
> 
> 
> Could be.
> 
> 
>>Of course there were a group of people dressed all in black wearing
>>masks. They had the letters POLICE on their clothes.
> 
> 
> The ones I talked to all seemed to be in as good a mood as the
> protestors. I thought the whole thing was quite pleasant really, though
> the whole thing where every little leftie group got to say their two
> minutes worth made for extremely dull speeches.
> 
> Quite a few people chuckled at my "I <Heart> Capitalism" t-shirt and a
> couple of folks took photos. I did notice a number of "Trade Not Aid"
> and "Free Trade is Fair Trade" shirts too. I also heard that a group of
> Mancunians hijacked the front of the march for a bit with signs saying
> "Bring Back Slavery!" and similar, but I didn't spot them.
> 


That would explain the photograph in the Sunday Herald with one bod 
carrying a placard that read "EAT BIG MACS" and another that looked like 
it read "MORE BLOOD FOR OIL".

-- 
Halmyre

> According to 5 live the Princes street mob are somewhere around about 
> Jenners/Scott Monument being held back from going back to the West End 
> where they started off.


This lot started around Dean Bridge I believe, and yes, it was absolutely 
CRAZY outside Jenners.  I am not long back, it was kind of exciting to 
witness, but still wrong.

Jimbobbery.

On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 15:25:26 UTC, David Hansen 
 wrote:


> On 3 Jul 2005 22:32:40 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
>  wrote this:-
> 
> >> The masks go under the helmets.
> >
> >There is no evidence of that in the photograph. 
> 
> A photograph of masked policemen in Edinburgh today. This time only
> their eyes are visible through the mask, in the last photograph I
> mentioned their eyes and nose were visible.


Nah, still not masks.


> Note also that these unidentifiable bods have no numbers on their
> uniform (the numbers on the back of helmets are tactical numbers,
> not individual ones). They do have the letters POLICE on their
> clothes though.


Now that is naughty. I hope someone writes to the Chief Constable for 
an explanation.

Ian

Steven Hill wrote:

> > Note also that these unidentifiable bods have no numbers on their
> > uniform (the numbers on the back of helmets are tactical numbers,
> > not individual ones). They do have the letters POLICE on their
> > clothes though.
>
> I should think you would be able to identify the officer from the
> "tactical" number on the helmet. Once again, Hansen macro #4 does not
> wash.


You think that would stand up in court? They could easily change them.

TTH

Halmyre <nospam@this.address> wrote:


>> Quite a few people chuckled at my "I <Heart> Capitalism" t-shirt and a
>> couple of folks took photos. I did notice a number of "Trade Not Aid"
>> and "Free Trade is Fair Trade" shirts too. I also heard that a group of
>> Mancunians hijacked the front of the march for a bit with signs saying
>> "Bring Back Slavery!" and similar, but I didn't spot them.

> That would explain the photograph in the Sunday Herald with one bod 
> carrying a placard that read "EAT BIG MACS" and another that looked like 
> it read "MORE BLOOD FOR OIL".


Excellent! You just have to admire humour like that. Apparently folks on
Princes Street pelted them with food.

FoFP

> > Note also that these unidentifiable bods have no numbers on their
> > uniform (the numbers on the back of helmets are tactical numbers,
> > not individual ones). They do have the letters POLICE on their
> > clothes though.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41265000/jpg/_41265407_edinbaton300x220.jpg

Doesn't look like the image you're trying to paint now, does it, Mr
Hansen?

-- 
Steven Hill

A lot can be achieved with a smile.
Granted, a lot more can be achieved with a smile and a gun.

"M Holmes"  wrote in message 
news:dabc74$867$9@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...

> jon  wrote:
>
>> Is this ed.general or the Daily Mail?
>
>> Jesus wept, get a grip.  A few crusties and a bit of rabble rousing - 
>> it's
>> not quite Stalingrad yet, is it.
>
> It's the graffitti with spelling errors that's the worst...


Granted.  I suspect the significant contingent of Italians/Greeks/random 
Southern European "anarchic" stereotypes may have something to do with that.

"August West"  wrote in message
news:87pstzhnio.fsf@news2.kororaa.com...

> "Tamzin"  writes:
>
> > I'm referring to those groups such as "Dissent" and the "wombles"
> > who devote their energies to direct action on the issues which
> > concern them i.e confrontation with any and everyone but most
> > especially the police.
>
> Who were not the organisers of the peaceful demo that so scared you on
> Saturday.


I thought you were referring to my comment that I was scared to go into work
on Monday 4 July.  The annoying thing about Saturday for me was that the
sheer scale of it meant considerable disruption to my routine as I then
thought although it actually didn't disrupt it at all.  I don't think that I
said that I was particularly scared of the Sat demo except insofar as I
feared that the same groups who caused trouble today (4 July) would hijack
the larger event if they could.  Fortunately they did not suceed on Saturday
but unfortunately it looks like they are going to keep trying for trouble
over the next few days.  Now I'm not looking forward to going in to work
tomorrow now - we were closed today and I hoped that I'd get a phone call to
tell me not to come in tomorrow but alas no.  I would find it horribly
unfair if the protests resulted in me being trapped at bloody work!  As I've
said all along I would not mind being disrupted by protests for a day or
even a weekend.  It's the fact that this stuff is going on all week and that
much of it appears to be based on spontaneous outbursts so that firstly,
no-one knows in advance how or whether they will be affected and secondly,
the police cannot guarantee that the demos in question will be kept safe.
I also object strongly to the tactics advocated by some of these people -
bullying and hectoring employees of the firms that they despise is childish,
vicious and extremely unlikely to have any effect on the policies adopted by
these companies.


> > About 60 of them did in fact try to hijack the MPH march yetserday
> > but were headed off due to prompt action by the police for which I
> > am very grateful.
>
> 60, out of a (reported 225,000). Mmm, big threat of hijak there. And
> none were even arrested.  As one (very middle-class criminal advocate)
> demonstrator said to me last night "had they actually tried anything
> on, 99% of the demonstrators would have been pointing them out to the
> police, not joining in". The very fact that the MPF demonstrators were
> dressed in white, and the self-styled "anarchists" in black suggests
> quite how stupid, and out of place, they were.


Well they managed a bit more than that today didn't they.  Or do you like
the idea of being trapped in your workplace by their antics?  I see no
reason why they won't try the same old tripe tomorrow and Wednesday.

Tamzin

"David Hansen"  wrote in message
news:n77gc15t8hr471jpuqfbesrd9ueaipsbmn@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:11:00 +0100 someone who may be "Tamzin"
>  wrote this:-
>
> >About
> >60 of them did in fact try to hijack the MPH march yetserday but were
headed
> >off due to prompt action by the police for which I am very grateful.
>
> Possibly, possibly not. I think it highly unlikely that "dangerous
> subversives", to paraphrase you I hope accurately,


Fraid not.  In fact if there were Thought Police around I rather suspect
that I would be classified as a "dangerous subversive" myself for my
thoughts on the human condition and on how society should be run.  To term
these people "subversive" is to dignify those who use the issue of the
moment as an excuse for confrontation and/or violence with a nobler purpose
than that which truly guides them.  They align themselves with real protest
marches in the hope that they can inflict even more damage and destruction
in a bigger crowd.  They like to fight and they like to destroy.  To claim
that they do either in the name of any ideal beyond satisfying their own
primitive desires simply muddies the waters by equating their "right" to do
so with the rights of freedom of expression and association.

I doubt that there are many such groups but that they do exist cannot be
denied.  And some of them were causing havoc today (4 July) in Edinburgh for
their own amusement.

Tamzin

"August West"  wrote in message
news:87irzrfvsl.fsf@news2.kororaa.com...

> Steven Hill  writes:
>
> > > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/lizzib/DSC03196a.jpg
> >
> > It's a photo of some chaps getting ready to make sure you lot don't
> > loot and pillage?
>
> "You lot"? Me, I was in Cambridge!
>
> > Your point is?
>
> I was simply illustrating the police in black combat outfits.
>


But if they didn't wear their uniforms they would be criticised for going
about undercover and accused of trying to entrap people.  Actually I bet
there were some "plants" in the crowds.


Tamzin

"David Hansen"  wrote in message
news:tcaic1dg5u89qc8ch1d2o3np3vvglseene@4ax.com...

> On 3 Jul 2005 22:32:40 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
>  wrote this:-
>
> >> The masks go under the helmets.
> >
> >There is no evidence of that in the photograph.
>
> The officer on the right is probably putting one on.
>
> However, you can see one under the helmet on the bottom picture at
> http://www.lbp.police.uk/publications/anrep99/elr/elr-04.htm. It is
> not pulled down to just reveal the eyes, but this can be done.
>


Well if you were in a job which required you to deal with people who may
well throw things at you, wouldn't you want all the safety equipment you
could get? Anyway the health & safety rules for their profession probably
require them to wear such protection in certain situations.  The police
don't want their former members able to sue them for disabilities incurred
whilst a police occifer which could have been avoided by use of suitable
protective gear.

Tamzin

"David Hansen"  wrote in message > A
photograph of masked policemen in Edinburgh today. This time only

> their eyes are visible through the mask, in the last photograph I
> mentioned their eyes and nose were visible.
>
> Note also that these unidentifiable bods have no numbers on their
> uniform (the numbers on the back of helmets are tactical numbers,
> not individual ones). They do have the letters POLICE on their
> clothes though.
>
> http://www.pbase.com/wangi/image/45695606
>
> Supposing a member of the black bloc had attacked you, as people
> have already claimed. How would you be able to accuse them in court?


I agree that this point is unacceptable and creates a worrying lack of
accountability.  They should have something by which they can be identified
by witnesses/victims should an incident occur.

Tamzin

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:42:41 +0100, whilst Carstairs had his head
thrust between the maids thighs a note arrived from our good  buddy
"Jim"  .
As Caruthers did not hear the bell, I answered it.
Our buddy, "Jim"  wrote:


>So,
>
>Not long to go before the lefty socialists try to "make their mark", however 
>things seem eerily normal for the time being.  I am hoping that "Sir" 
>Geldoff's dream falls flat on its face, and 1 million actually becomes 
>1,000.


Most folk mis-understand the function of this newsgroup.

Allow me to explain the function of < uk.local.*> news groups where
this post should have gone. All of them,have been from the very
beginning and will be to the very end safe play areas for all sorts of
rageing nutters, social malcontents, controll freaks and malevolent
beings. 

You may feel that they should go elsewhere and leave usenet alone.
But where? The asylums are all closed! What would you have of them?
Standing in their back yards at midnight howling to the full moon and
frightining the shit out of the neighbours into the bargain? Have them
running around shafting masons, suspected werewolves, communists,
socialists, conservatives and women with vaginal warts by the  dozen?
OR harmlessly making utter cunts of themselves in a uk.local group?
Lets face it what is one other cunt amongst the many in these groups??
I know what I prefer!! The uk.local hierarchy of newsgroups is a
valuable safety valve which helps to keep society a wee bit more safe.
It was also set-up to take the pressure of the real and serious news
groups such as uk.people.disability. Sadly, people whom you would not
be seen in public with have taken over this group and distorted it to
their own ends. 

Before busting your solitary neurone working out a reply please
direct all hoslities (restrict your bile etc) to uk.local. groups such
as <uk.local.essx>. Your destructive inane drivel will recieve a warm
welcome. Give it a try today.

You may disagree. I would be interested to hear your opinion and no
doubt would the rest of the UK hierarchy. 

Thanks for your interest.

"M Holmes"  wrote in message
news:dabcek$867$10@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...

> Tamzin  wrote:
>
> > Once again I'd like to know why being a "lefty" is considered to be such
a
> > bad thing by so many.
>
> I dunno, but it's good innit?
>
> > Am I the only person here who thinks that Thatcher was a complete
> > lunatic who created the prevailing self-serving attitude in our
> > society.  The adoration of talentless wannabe celebrities, the
> > deification of those who become rich, the expanding consumer debt
> > incurred by those wishing to create the facade of wealth, the
> > acceptance as desirable of complete lack of ethics in the pursuit of
> > personal gain and the pure selfishness which underlies so much of our
> > lives are all down to her.
>
> I think that's about as accurate as Thatcher's claim that It Wos The
> Sixties Wot Dun It.


Well to continue in a similar vein - twas Thatcher who ruined all the good
wot the sixties dun and created the monster of a society in whcih we now
live.  Of course if we hadn't had the restoration of the monarchy in Chas II
then the country would be a far superior republic now and maybe the
alteration to the timeline would mean that Mrs Thatch would neveruv been
born innit?

Tamzin

"Tamzin"  writes:


> "David Hansen"  wrote in message
> news:tcaic1dg5u89qc8ch1d2o3np3vvglseene@4ax.com...
>
> > However, you can see one under the helmet on the bottom picture at
> > http://www.lbp.police.uk/publications/anrep99/elr/elr-04.htm. It is
> > not pulled down to just reveal the eyes, but this can be done.
> 
> Well if you were in a job which required you to deal with people who may
> well throw things at you, wouldn't you want all the safety equipment you
> could get? Anyway the health & safety rules for their profession probably
> require them to wear such protection in certain situations.


Doesn't look like it - this chap (under atck by a loon with a 4x2) is
apparently not wearing anything more than he'd wear on a normal day,
as far as I can see:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41265000/jpg/_41265407_edinbaton300x220.jpg

-- 
She's a junkyard angel and she always gives me bread

M Holmes wrote:


> jon  wrote:
> 
>> Is this ed.general or the Daily Mail?
> 
>> Jesus wept, get a grip.  A few crusties and a bit of rabble rousing -
>> it's not quite Stalingrad yet, is it.
> 
> It's the graffitti with spelling errors that's the worst...


Speaking of spelling errors, that's not how one spells "graffiti",
and since the word is plural, shouldn't it be "that're the worst"?
:-)

"August West"  wrote in message
news:87zmt2csfs.fsf@news2.kororaa.com...

> "Tamzin"  writes:
>
> > "David Hansen"  wrote in message
> > news:tcaic1dg5u89qc8ch1d2o3np3vvglseene@4ax.com...
> >
> > > However, you can see one under the helmet on the bottom picture at
> > > http://www.lbp.police.uk/publications/anrep99/elr/elr-04.htm. It is
> > > not pulled down to just reveal the eyes, but this can be done.
> >
> > Well if you were in a job which required you to deal with people who may
> > well throw things at you, wouldn't you want all the safety equipment you
> > could get? Anyway the health & safety rules for their profession
probably
> > require them to wear such protection in certain situations.
>
> Doesn't look like it - this chap (under atck by a loon with a 4x2) is
> apparently not wearing anything more than he'd wear on a normal day,
> as far as I can see:


Well he'll be getting slapped wrists from the Health & Safety officer won't
he?  Provided, of course, that he dons his government patented "limp wrist"
wrist protectors beforehand under the Protection of Wrists in
Employment(Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1498 as amended by the "Employee
Retribution (Punishment and Penalties) regulations 2004.

Tamzin

Ian Johnston wrote:

> On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:23:15 UTC, David Hansen 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>>On 3 Jul 2005 22:17:29 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
>> wrote this:-
>>
>>
>>>>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/lizzib/DSC03196a.jpg
>>>
>>>I can't see any masks there. Helmets, yes. Masks, no.
>>
>>The masks go under the helmets.
> 
> 
> There is no evidence of that in the photograph. Do they wear "Barbie" 
> T-shirts under the body armour too?
> 
> Ian


Don't be stupid.
http://flickr.com/photos/redlex/23571116/in/photostream/
Policeman on the right. Note mask.

August West wrote:


> "Tamzin"  writes:
> 
> 
>>"David Hansen"  wrote in message
>>news:tcaic1dg5u89qc8ch1d2o3np3vvglseene@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>>>However, you can see one under the helmet on the bottom picture at
>>>http://www.lbp.police.uk/publications/anrep99/elr/elr-04.htm. It is
>>>not pulled down to just reveal the eyes, but this can be done.
>>
>>Well if you were in a job which required you to deal with people who may
>>well throw things at you, wouldn't you want all the safety equipment you
>>could get? Anyway the health & safety rules for their profession probably
>>require them to wear such protection in certain situations.
> 
> 
> Doesn't look like it - this chap (under atck by a loon with a 4x2) is
> apparently not wearing anything more than he'd wear on a normal day,
> as far as I can see:
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41265000/jpg/_41265407_edinbaton300x220.jpg
> 


So why are these people treated any differently from football hoolicans?

TTH

Alex Hunsley wrote:


> Ian Johnston wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:23:15 UTC, David Hansen 
>>  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On 3 Jul 2005 22:17:29 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
>>>  wrote this:-
>>>
>>>
>>>>> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/lizzib/DSC03196a.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I can't see any masks there. Helmets, yes. Masks, no.
>>>
>>>
>>> The masks go under the helmets.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is no evidence of that in the photograph. Do they wear "Barbie" 
>> T-shirts under the body armour too?
>>
>> Ian
> 
> 
> Don't be stupid.
> http://flickr.com/photos/redlex/23571116/in/photostream/
> Policeman on the right. Note mask.


They are a bit 'Blake's 7', aren't they?

TTH

Alex Hunsley wrote:

> Ian Johnston wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:23:15 UTC, David Hansen 
>>  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On 3 Jul 2005 22:17:29 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
>>>  wrote this:-
>>>
>>>
>>>>> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/lizzib/DSC03196a.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I can't see any masks there. Helmets, yes. Masks, no.
>>>
>>>
>>> The masks go under the helmets.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is no evidence of that in the photograph. Do they wear "Barbie" 
>> T-shirts under the body armour too?
>>
>> Ian
> 
> 
> Don't be stupid.
> http://flickr.com/photos/redlex/23571116/in/photostream/
> Policeman on the right. Note mask.


Or http://flickr.com/photos/redlex/23569464/in/photostream/ which shows 
a mixture of mask and non-mask.

Stewart Smith wrote:

> David Hansen wrote:
> 
>>
>>> Something kicked off earlier though: about 25 vans full of cops left
>>> George Square with their sirens going. One cop said they'd been called
>>> out to the West End.
>>
>>
>>
>> There does seem to be some trouble at the moment.
>>
> 
> According to 5 live the Princes street mob are somewhere around about 
> Jenners/Scott Monument being held back from going back to the West End 
> where they started off.  More annoyed by the 5-live reporter continually 
> calling it "Princess Street".  


Ahh yes, there was a reporter for BBC news 24 doing the same thing.

In article <TKgye.62672$G8.2447@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, The Tattie 
Howker  writes

>Alex Hunsley wrote:

>> http://flickr.com/photos/redlex/23571116/in/photostream/
>> Policeman on the right. Note mask.
>
>They are a bit 'Blake's 7', aren't they?


  French riot police wear Nomex balaclava masks in case of petrol bombs, 
to protect the skin on the neck and face from flames. These are probably 
similar.
-- 
Email me via robert (at) nojay (dot) org  (new email address)
This address no longer accepts HTML posts.

Robert Sneddon

On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 20:00:51 UTC, Alex Hunsley 
 wrote:


> Ian Johnston wrote:
> > On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:23:15 UTC, David Hansen 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>On 3 Jul 2005 22:17:29 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
> >> wrote this:-
> >>
> >>
> >>>>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/lizzib/DSC03196a.jpg
> >>>
> >>>I can't see any masks there. Helmets, yes. Masks, no.
> >>
> >>The masks go under the helmets.
> > 
> > 
> > There is no evidence of that in the photograph. Do they wear "Barbie" 
> > T-shirts under the body armour too?

> Don't be stupid.


The point was that the photograph which was claimed to show polis in 
masks did not do so.


> http://flickr.com/photos/redlex/23571116/in/photostream/
> Policeman on the right. Note mask.


That one does indeed show a breathing mask. I wonder which side he was
expecting to use CS gas?

Ian

--

On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 20:10:36 UTC, The Tattie Howker 
 wrote:


> So why are these people treated any differently from football hoolicans?


Apparently Dungavel has been emptied for the week. Seems like an 
excellent  n
and convenient place to keep foreign troublemakers before chucking 
them out the country.

Ian
--

Robert Sneddon  writes:


> In article <TKgye.62672$G8.2447@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, The
> Tattie Howker  writes
> >Alex Hunsley wrote:
> 
> >> http://flickr.com/photos/redlex/23571116/in/photostream/
> >> Policeman on the right. Note mask.
> >
> >They are a bit 'Blake's 7', aren't they?
> 
>   French riot police wear Nomex balaclava masks in case of petrol
> bombs, to protect the skin on the neck and face from flames. These are
> probably similar.


Maybe, maybe not: the CRS are notoriously hugly violent, and
heavily-armed, military police - our police aren't anything like the
CRS.

-- 
Long as you know you're living yours

Ian Johnston wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 20:00:51 UTC, Alex Hunsley
>  wrote:

> > http://flickr.com/photos/redlex/23571116/in/photostream/
> > Policeman on the right. Note mask.

> That one does indeed show a breathing mask. I wonder which side he was
> expecting to use CS gas?


Eh!   A nuisance/dust mask like that is meant to be would be useless
against CS as it "atacks" the mucus membranes and exposed skin so the
eyes would be streaming and the face stinging.  The only real defense
against CS would be a full face respirator (commonly called a gas mask).
The photo before this one shows the balaclava worn exposing the face the
balaclava/hood was probably intended to help subvert petrol bombs and
other thrown liquids the fact that they also can be used to provide
anonymity is a "bonus".  Also with the "mask" just exposing the eyes and
a visor over your face you (TINY) would feel quite detached and
invulnerable I remember when wearing full NBC kit leaping into hedges
and stuff didn't hurt (untill later), wearing a respirator and hood up
everything felt like it wasn't actually happening to you it felt as if
you were watching any "action" on a telly, indeed section comanders have
to watch for people in NBC equipment becoming detached and disoriented.
-- 
yours S

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione

On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 16:28:57 +0100 someone who may be Steven Hill
 wrote this:-


>I should think you would be able to identify the officer from the
>"tactical" number on the helmet.


I have seen film of officers with the same number on their helmets
standing side by side. That is because they are tactical numbers
rather than individual ones.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 20:00:51 GMT someone who may be Alex Hunsley
 wrote this:-


>http://flickr.com/photos/redlex/23571116/in/photostream/
>Policeman on the right. Note mask.


And the third picture on
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/316053.html shows several
members of the black bloc putting their masks on.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On 4 Jul 2005 21:08:27 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
 wrote this:-


>The point was that the photograph which was claimed to show polis in 
>masks


An incorrect claim.

What I said was "Of course there were a group of people dressed all
in black wearing masks. They had the letters POLICE on their
clothes." Note the lack of reference to a particular photograph.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 19:14:35 +0100 someone who may be "Tamzin"
 wrote this:-


>They align themselves with real protest
>marches in the hope that they can inflict even more damage and destruction
>in a bigger crowd.  They like to fight and they like to destroy.  To claim
>that they do either in the name of any ideal beyond satisfying their own
>primitive desires simply muddies the waters by equating their "right" to do
>so with the rights of freedom of expression and association.


There are probably such people in any large group.

However, the clown army seem to have been quite effective in calming
down some situations which could have got worse had the police not
been calmed down

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/316198.html 
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/316100.html 




-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 05:56:29 UTC, David Hansen 
 wrote:


> On 4 Jul 2005 21:08:27 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
>  wrote this:-
> 
> >The point was that the photograph which was claimed to show polis in 
> >masks
> 
> An incorrect claim.
> 
> What I said was "Of course there were a group of people dressed all
> in black wearing masks. They had the letters POLICE on their
> clothes." Note the lack of reference to a particular photograph.


You are being over sensitive. It was someone else who claimed that the
photograph in question showed the masks you had mentioned.

Ian

"Ian Johnston"  writes:


> On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 05:56:29 UTC, David Hansen 
>  wrote:
> 
> > On 4 Jul 2005 21:08:27 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
> >  wrote this:-
> > 
> > >The point was that the photograph which was claimed to show polis in 
> > >masks
> > 
> > An incorrect claim.
> > 
> > What I said was "Of course there were a group of people dressed all
> > in black wearing masks. They had the letters POLICE on their
> > clothes." Note the lack of reference to a particular photograph.
> 
> You are being over sensitive. It was someone else who claimed that the
> photograph in question showed the masks you had mentioned.


No they didn't.

-- 
I hang my head for shame of doing wrong

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:03:06 UTC, August West  
wrote:


> "Ian Johnston"  writes:
> > You are being over sensitive. It was someone else who claimed that the
> > photograph in question showed the masks you had mentioned.
> 
> No they didn't.


Well, what you wrote was this:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: August West 
Newsgroups: alt.uk.edinburgh.misc,ed.general
Subject: Re: G8 lefty twats - what's the deal? Leave Edinburgh in 
peace.
Date: 03 Jul 2005 18:37:52 +0100
Organization: Kororaa UltraLight Engineering
Message-ID: 
 
Steven Hill  writes:
 

> > Of course there were a group of people dressed all in black wearing
> > masks. They had the letters POLICE on their clothes.
> 
> What's this? Hansen macro #4 or #5?

 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/lizzib/DSC03196a.jpg
 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And all I did was point out that this doen't show masks.

Ian

On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 19:32:34 +0100 someone who may be "Tamzin"
 wrote this:-


>I agree that this point is unacceptable and creates a worrying lack of
>accountability.  They should have something by which they can be identified
>by witnesses/victims should an incident occur.


I am glad we agree on this.

The corporate media is busy regurgitating information from the
police and being rather selective in what it reports. I am simply
putting another side to people for them to consider. I dislike
unnecessary and excessive violence from anyone, but it is not as
simple as some like to portray.



-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen  writes

>On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 19:32:34 +0100 someone who may be "Tamzin"
> wrote this:-
>
>>I agree that this point is unacceptable and creates a worrying lack of
>>accountability.  They should have something by which they can be identified
>>by witnesses/victims should an incident occur.
>
>I am glad we agree on this.
>

AOL - quite strongly in fact.


>The corporate media is busy regurgitating information from the
>police and being rather selective in what it reports. I am simply
>putting another side to people for them to consider. I dislike
>unnecessary and excessive violence from anyone, 


You've been awfie quiet about the violence from the protestors. Anyone
would think you believed the forces of the state could do no right :-)


>but it is not as
>simple as some like to portray.
>

Aye, there's people on both sides of the ideological divide guilty of
that.
-- 
Bob Scott

"Ian Johnston"  writes:


> On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:03:06 UTC, August West  
> wrote:
> 
> > "Ian Johnston"  writes:
> > > You are being over sensitive. It was someone else who claimed that the
> > > photograph in question showed the masks you had mentioned.
> > 
> > No they didn't.
> 
> Well, what you wrote was this:
> 
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> From: August West 
> Newsgroups: alt.uk.edinburgh.misc,ed.general
> Subject: Re: G8 lefty twats - what's the deal? Leave Edinburgh in 
> peace.
> Date: 03 Jul 2005 18:37:52 +0100
> Organization: Kororaa UltraLight Engineering
> Message-ID: 
>  
> Steven Hill  writes:
>  
> > > Of course there were a group of people dressed all in black wearing
> > > masks. They had the letters POLICE on their clothes.
> > 
> > What's this? Hansen macro #4 or #5?
>  
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/lizzib/DSC03196a.jpg
>  
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> And all I did was point out that this doen't show masks.


And I was pointing out thay I never claimed that it showed masks.
Indeed, I didn't actually say anything.

-- 
just the way the wicked wind blows

Tamzin  wrote:


> I thought you were referring to my comment that I was scared to go into work
> on Monday 4 July.  The annoying thing about Saturday for me was that the
> sheer scale of it meant considerable disruption to my routine as I then
> thought although it actually didn't disrupt it at all.  I don't think that I
> said that I was particularly scared of the Sat demo except insofar as I
> feared that the same groups who caused trouble today (4 July) would hijack
> the larger event if they could.  Fortunately they did not suceed on Saturday
> but unfortunately it looks like they are going to keep trying for trouble
> over the next few days.  Now I'm not looking forward to going in to work
> tomorrow now - we were closed today and I hoped that I'd get a phone call to
> tell me not to come in tomorrow but alas no.  I would find it horribly
> unfair if the protests resulted in me being trapped at bloody work!  As I've
> said all along I would not mind being disrupted by protests for a day or
> even a weekend.  It's the fact that this stuff is going on all week and that
> much of it appears to be based on spontaneous outbursts so that firstly,
> no-one knows in advance how or whether they will be affected and secondly,
> the police cannot guarantee that the demos in question will be kept safe.


Here's a tip: If you see a line of riot police, don't tap them on the
shoulder, say "excuse me" and saunter through the line. I tried that and
found myself with a bunch of rioters trapped between two lines of riot
police who were planning to march us out to the next County.

I dodged 'em of course, but not everyone did.

FoFP

> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/316198.html
> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/316100.html



These harmless "clowns" are the same fucking idiots who wrecked the gardens 
and threw benches at police.  Also the same damn fools who started the first 
run at the police on Princess Street, one in particular - I have his photo - 
was instigating lots of shit on the front line.

These clowns are a bunch of anarchist thugs.


Jimbobbery.

Ian Johnston  wrote:


> Apparently Dungavel has been emptied for the week. Seems like an 
> excellent  n
> and convenient place to keep foreign troublemakers before chucking 
> them out the country.


Into the sea hopefully. 

FoFP

August West  wrote:

> Robert Sneddon  writes:

>>   French riot police wear Nomex balaclava masks in case of petrol
>> bombs, to protect the skin on the neck and face from flames. These are
>> probably similar.

> Maybe, maybe not: the CRS are notoriously hugly violent, and
> heavily-armed, military police


They never sem to be able to move French farmers when they're on their
usual summer Blockading Tour.

FoFP

M Holmes  writes:


> August West  wrote:
> > Robert Sneddon  writes:
> 
> >>   French riot police wear Nomex balaclava masks in case of petrol
> >> bombs, to protect the skin on the neck and face from flames. These are
> >> probably similar.
> 
> > Maybe, maybe not: the CRS are notoriously hugly violent, and
> > heavily-armed, military police
> 
> They never sem to be able to move French farmers when they're on their
> usual summer Blockading Tour.


The government is scared of the farmers, so keeps the CRS well away
from them.

-- 
things fall apart; the centre cannot hold

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 12:02:44 UTC, August West  
wrote:


> "Ian Johnston"  writes:
> > And all I did was point out that this doen't show masks.
> 
> And I was pointing out thay I never claimed that it showed masks.
> Indeed, I didn't actually say anything.


True. I just assumed you meant it to be relevant to the post you were 
replying to ...

Ian 


--

"Ian Johnston"  writes:


> On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 12:02:44 UTC, August West  
> wrote:
> 
> > "Ian Johnston"  writes:
> > > And all I did was point out that this doen't show masks.
> > 
> > And I was pointing out thay I never claimed that it showed masks.
> > Indeed, I didn't actually say anything.
> 
> True. I just assumed you meant it to be relevant to the post you
> were replying to ...


Well it did illustrate the police in black!

-- 
get your rocks off, baby

In article <dadt03$luv$2@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>, M Holmes
 wrote:


> Here's a tip: If you see a line of riot police, don't tap them on the
> shoulder, say "excuse me" and saunter through the line. I tried that and
> found myself with a bunch of rioters trapped between two lines of riot
> police who were planning to march us out to the next County.
> 
> I dodged 'em of course, but not everyone did.


A colleague tried to ride his bike down the Bridges and down towards
Leith last night at about 7.30.  Riot police were blocking Leith Street
and directed him onto Princes Street, which was blocked by more riot
police.  The ones behind him then blocked Princes Street at the
Balmoral.  He was held for an hour at Princes Mall along with another
hundred or so apparently random punters.  They were eventually allowed
to exit into St Andrew's Square between two lines of riot police.  No
explanation was given.

Sam

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 13:45:34 +0100 someone who may be Sam Wilson
 wrote this:-


>A colleague tried to ride his bike down the Bridges and down towards
>Leith last night at about 7.30. [snip]  No
>explanation was given.


Cyclists are dangerous subversives, at least in the eyes of some.

That is why they are stopping and searching cyclists on the Forth
Road Bridge, when if they were actually interested in preventing
protestors climbing on the bridge they would be stopping and
searching motorists. After all, far more climbing equipment can be
carried in a car.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

> That is why they are stopping and searching cyclists on the Forth
> Road Bridge, when if they were actually interested in preventing
> protestors climbing on the bridge they would be stopping and
> searching motorists. After all, far more climbing equipment can be
> carried in a car.


Try stopping and getting out of a car in the middle of the Forth Bridge,
and see how far you get then.

-- 
Steven Hill

Heisenberg slept here, or somewhere else nearby.

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 13:58:29 +0100 someone who may be Steven Hill
 wrote this:-


>Try stopping and getting out of a car in the middle of the Forth Bridge,


I believe it happens several times a week.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 12:35:39 UTC, August West  
wrote:


> "Ian Johnston"  writes:

> > True. I just assumed you meant it to be relevant to the post you
> > were replying to ...
> 
> Well it did illustrate the police in black!


I just hoped to see some stylish Zorro masks as well.

Ian

Sam Wilson  wrote:

> In article <dadt03$luv$2@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>, M Holmes
>  wrote:

>> Here's a tip: If you see a line of riot police, don't tap them on the
>> shoulder, say "excuse me" and saunter through the line. I tried that and
>> found myself with a bunch of rioters trapped between two lines of riot
>> police who were planning to march us out to the next County.

>> I dodged 'em of course, but not everyone did.

> A colleague tried to ride his bike down the Bridges and down towards
> Leith last night at about 7.30.  Riot police were blocking Leith Street
> and directed him onto Princes Street, which was blocked by more riot
> police.  The ones behind him then blocked Princes Street at the
> Balmoral.  He was held for an hour at Princes Mall along with another
> hundred or so apparently random punters.  They were eventually allowed
> to exit into St Andrew's Square between two lines of riot police.  No
> explanation was given.


I think that's just what they do. They have operational orders and tend
to stick rigidly to them even if it's obvious they've netted a punter
instead of a troublemaker. It may also be that they draft in army guys
to act as riot cops (another reason for the lack of ID numbers I
suspect).

The ordinary coppers have more flexibility and it was through reasoning
with a couple of those that I escaped the net at Stonehenge.

FoFP

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 16:03:26 UTC, "Ian Johnston" 
 wrote:


> I just hoped to see some stylish Zorro masks as well.


Finally. A really good mask, designed to conceal the identity of 
someone involved in violent behaviour:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4652493.stm

Unfortunately for the pro-thug party, it's one of the protestors. The 
four polis visible behind him (or her) aren't even wearing helmets.

Ian

In article <daed91$p72$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>, M Holmes
 wrote:


> Sam Wilson  wrote:
> > In article <dadt03$luv$2@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>, M Holmes
> >  wrote:
> 
> >> Here's a tip: If you see a line of riot police, don't tap them on the
> >> shoulder, say "excuse me" and saunter through the line. I tried that and
> >> found myself with a bunch of rioters trapped between two lines of riot
> >> police who were planning to march us out to the next County.
> 
> >> I dodged 'em of course, but not everyone did.
> 
> > A colleague tried to ride his bike down the Bridges and down towards
> > Leith last night at about 7.30.  Riot police were blocking Leith Street
> > and directed him onto Princes Street, which was blocked by more riot
> > police.  The ones behind him then blocked Princes Street at the
> > Balmoral.  He was held for an hour at Princes Mall along with another
> > hundred or so apparently random punters.  They were eventually allowed
> > to exit into St Andrew's Square between two lines of riot police.  No
> > explanation was given.
> 
> I think that's just what they do. They have operational orders and tend
> to stick rigidly to them even if it's obvious they've netted a punter
> instead of a troublemaker. It may also be that they draft in army guys
> to act as riot cops (another reason for the lack of ID numbers I
> suspect).
> 
> The ordinary coppers have more flexibility and it was through reasoning
> with a couple of those that I escaped the net at Stonehenge.


Colleague says he tried to talk to a couple of yellow-jacketed polis
who claimed not to know why the members of the public were being held. 
Others in the crowd asked the riot police how they could get out and
were told to try going another way.  "But you've blocked all the other
ways!"

Sam

"David Hansen"  wrote in message 
news:8ijkc11eojvfu6dj9rlqamsuuu7gjks2nu@4ax.com...

> I dislike
> unnecessary and excessive violence from anyone,


David,

Can you tell me, please, what level of violence against UK police officers 
you believe might help reduce Africa's level of poverty?

Many thanks,

regards,
/alan

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 17:56:21 GMT someone who may be "Alan"
 wrote this:-


>Can you tell me, please, what level of violence against UK police officers 
>you believe might help reduce Africa's level of poverty?


I'll add the bit you snipped "but it is not as
simple as some like to portray."

I don't think the hotheads helped the causes most protestors are
interested in. Apart from anything else they allow the mass media to
let politicians off the hook.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On 5 Jul 2005 16:54:48 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
 wrote this:-


>Finally. A really good mask, designed to conceal the identity of 
>someone involved in violent behaviour:
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4652493.stm


Indeed. If it had white circles around the holes it would look like
the masks worm by some police officers in some places, though I have
not noticed such masks worn by the police here yet.

However, I have already stated my views on masks.


>Unfortunately for the pro-thug party,


I have yet to notice any such party.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

"M Holmes"  wrote in message
news:dadt03$luv$2@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...

> Here's a tip: If you see a line of riot police, don't tap them on the
> shoulder, say "excuse me" and saunter through the line. I tried that and
> found myself with a bunch of rioters trapped between two lines of riot
> police who were planning to march us out to the next County.
>
> I dodged 'em of course, but not everyone did.


This anecdote illustrates the classic FoFpism in all it's glory.

Tamzin :o)

"David Hansen"  wrote in message
news:pe0lc11b3qq5ju7vvq0qi8q085nj91p2s7@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 13:45:34 +0100 someone who may be Sam Wilson
>  wrote this:-
>
> >A colleague tried to ride his bike down the Bridges and down towards
> >Leith last night at about 7.30. [snip]  No
> >explanation was given.
>
> Cyclists are dangerous subversives, at least in the eyes of some.
>
> That is why they are stopping and searching cyclists on the Forth
> Road Bridge, when if they were actually interested in preventing
> protestors climbing on the bridge they would be stopping and
> searching motorists. After all, far more climbing equipment can be
> carried in a car.
>


There does seem to have been a breakdown of all logic in the making of that
decision.  Often when faced with such tales of unquestioning stupidity I
have very little hope for the future of humanity.  Perhaps it would be
better if all exterminated each other and left this poor planet alone?

Tamzin

"David Hansen"  wrote in message
news:a7alc1dnd3bmvv1830g0at3ij19hagftof@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 13:58:29 +0100 someone who may be Steven Hill
>  wrote this:-
>
> >Try stopping and getting out of a car in the middle of the Forth Bridge,
>
> I believe it happens several times a week.
>


I hate to agree with David Hanse on principle <g> but I did once see someone
do this on the opposite carriageway to the one I was travelling on!  By the
time I reached the other side of the river various official vehicles were
making for the spot and I thanked my lucky stars that I'd got over before
they started closing the bridge to traffic.  SElfish I know but I don't
care!

Tamzin
(The office is closed again tomorrow - not sure what the threat is apart
from a vague promise to go one better on Monday's antics by one
troublemaker - and I'm happy as can be at the enforced skice which doesn't
count as annual leave (we have this in writing)!!!!!!!!!!

"Jim"  wrote in message
news:dadstp$hm7$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...

> > http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/316198.html
> > http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/316100.html
>
>
> These harmless "clowns" are the same fucking idiots who wrecked the
gardens
> and threw benches at police.


I feel bad about those benches.  Most of them are dedicated in memory of a
deceased resident or lover of Edinburgh whose family wished to commemorate
them in a way they would have appreciated.  I would be very upset if I had
dedicated a bench in memory of say my grandpa only to find that it had been
abused in such a nasty way by either side in a skirmish.

Tamzin

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 20:39:14 +0100 someone who may be "Tamzin"
 wrote this:-


>(The office is closed again tomorrow - not sure what the threat is apart
>from a vague promise to go one better on Monday's antics by one
>troublemaker - and I'm happy as can be at the enforced skice which doesn't
>count as annual leave (we have this in writing)!!!!!!!!!!


I hope you are suitably grateful to the protestors and to the mass
hysteria which surrounds them:-)


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 20:35:30 +0100 someone who may be "Tamzin"
 wrote this:-


>Perhaps it would be
>better if all exterminated each other and left this poor planet alone?


I suspect Mr Bush has plans for this. Whether it involves GM food,
global warming or nuclear weapons has yet to become clear.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

"David Hansen"  wrote in message
news:gjrlc1d5di96g23jokufdpl0o1sjp5t7c6@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 20:39:14 +0100 someone who may be "Tamzin"
>  wrote this:-
>
> >(The office is closed again tomorrow - not sure what the threat is apart
> >from a vague promise to go one better on Monday's antics by one
> >troublemaker - and I'm happy as can be at the enforced skice which
doesn't
> >count as annual leave (we have this in writing)!!!!!!!!!!
>
> I hope you are suitably grateful to the protestors and to the mass
> hysteria which surrounds them:-)
>
>


Oh yes - in practical terms.  But I'm still willing to take the opposing
view in discussions of theory!

Tamzin

In article  SENDdavidNOhSPAM@spidacom.co.uk wrote...


> I hope you are suitably grateful to the protestors and to the mass
> hysteria which surrounds them:-)


The 'mass hysteria' may be caused by the fact that the sight of a bunch
of vandals is not something the people of Edinburh are used to. (*)

Mike Dickson, Edinburgh, Scotland

(*) Cue Wanker Hansen telling us how the vandals were actually the
police. (**)

(**) Cue Wanker Hansen with 'Excellent, personal abuse'.

In article  SENDdavidNOhSPAM@spidacom.co.uk wrote...


> However, I have already stated my views on masks.


Maybe you should say it again. I think most of us were asleep.

Mike Dickson, Edinburgh, Scotland

On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 13:14:32 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be M Holmes
 wrote this:-


>> Finally. A really good mask, designed to conceal the identity of 
>> someone involved in violent behaviour:
>
>I've routinely carried one in my bag for years now.  Usually it's rolled
>up as a hat when worn, but sometimes when skiing, or cycling in a lot of
>rain, I deploy it in full IRA mode. 
>
>I suppose if I did get stopped by the cops, this might take some
>explaining...


Especially if cycling. Highly likely to be a terrorist.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

"M Holmes"  wrote in message
news:dagl4p$7eq$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...

> Tamzin  wrote:
>
> > I hate to agree with David Hanse on principle <g> but I did once see
someone
> > do this on the opposite carriageway to the one I was travelling on!
>
> They probably stopped to try to pay your fare.
>


Unfortunately that incident appears to have been a one-pff :o(

Tamzin