I went to look at this car but it judders when pulling away and I
suspect the  clutch is badly worn. Does any one have ideas how much it
would cost to replace one ? It's a 95 N reg,  What if they have to skim
the fly wheel , would that be engine out time ?
It's a very nice car apart from that, although very expensive at £4k I
thought  :-(
Simon

wrote in message 
news:1119952697.794953.156380@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I went to look at this car but it judders when pulling away and I
suspect the  clutch is badly worn. Does any one have ideas how much it
would cost to replace one ? It's a 95 N reg,  What if they have to skim
the fly wheel , would that be engine out time ?
It's a very nice car apart from that, although very expensive at 4k I
thought  :-(
Simon


It is a three hour job, the flywheel probably needs skimming, very easy to 
remove while the clutch is off.

3 hrs at 50 equals 150, flywheel skim 35 quid, clutch kit 120, so a total of 
about 300 quid. for a proper job.

mrcheerful

> It is a three hour job, the flywheel probably needs skimming, very easy to
> remove while the clutch is off.
>
> 3 hrs at 50 equals 150, flywheel skim 35 quid, clutch kit 120, so a total of
> about 300 quid. for a proper job.
>
> mrcheerful


Many people will charge twice as much for a half-arsed job.  Proper job
would be a new flywheel.

>> It is a three hour job, the flywheel probably needs skimming, very easy to
>> remove while the clutch is off.

>> 3 hrs at 50 equals 150, flywheel skim 35 quid, clutch kit 120, so a total of
>> about 300 quid. for a proper job.

>> mrcheerful

>Many people will charge twice as much for a half-arsed job.  Proper job
>would be a new flywheel.


thanks, that's good to know. That not as bad as I thought really..

Simon

In article <48awe.57936$G8.34942@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, mrcheerful
..  writes


>It is a three hour job, the flywheel probably needs skimming, very easy to 
>remove while the clutch is off.


Is the flywheel skimming a BMW thing?

"Mike Tomlinson"  wrote in message 
news:386+75KCSYwCFw2D@jasper.org.uk...

> In article <48awe.57936$G8.34942@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, mrcheerful
> .  writes
>
>>It is a three hour job, the flywheel probably needs skimming, very easy to
>>remove while the clutch is off.
>
> Is the flywheel skimming a BMW thing?
>

No , it's a 'doing the job properly' thing.

hth.

JB

mrcheerful
..  wrote:


> 3 hrs at 50 equals 150


How fucking much?
-- 
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

"SteveH"  wrote in message
news:1gyvqrv.jd7jxb1hhj29uN%steve@italiancar.co.uk...

> mrcheerful
> .  wrote:
>
> > 3 hrs at 50 equals 150
>
> How fucking much?
> --
> Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
> http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
> Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
> BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #


i got my clutch done a couple of months back, 90 quid me thinks. ok it was
RWD do no more then 3-4 hours. it acutally took them longer cos the slave
cylinder was shagged so i had to get a new one.

Julian 'Penny for the guy'  Hales  wrote:


> "SteveH"  wrote in message
> news:1gyvqrv.jd7jxb1hhj29uN%steve@italiancar.co.uk...
> > mrcheerful
> > .  wrote:
> >
> > > 3 hrs at 50 equals 150
> >
> > How fucking much?
> 
> i got my clutch done a couple of months back, 90 quid me thinks. ok it was
> RWD do no more then 3-4 hours. it acutally took them longer cos the slave
> cylinder was shagged so i had to get a new one.


Aye, BMW clutch shouldn't be too hard to change, RWD and all that.

However, who, in their right mind, pays 50 quid / hour labour?

My local guy is 25 plus VAT.
-- 
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

In news:1gyvqxq.1xsccjw1lpdnmbN%steve@italiancar.co.uk,
SteveH  decided to enlighten our sheltered souls 
with a rant as follows

> Julian 'Penny for the guy'  Hales 
> wrote:
>
>> "SteveH"  wrote in message
>> news:1gyvqrv.jd7jxb1hhj29uN%steve@italiancar.co.uk...
>>> mrcheerful
>>> .  wrote:
>>>
>>>> 3 hrs at 50 equals 150
>>>
>>> How fucking much?
>>
>> i got my clutch done a couple of months back, 90 quid me thinks. ok
>> it was RWD do no more then 3-4 hours. it acutally took them longer
>> cos the slave cylinder was shagged so i had to get a new one.
>
> Aye, BMW clutch shouldn't be too hard to change, RWD and all that.
>
> However, who, in their right mind, pays 50 quid / hour labour?


No-one, and the clutch in a 525 TDS is a piece of piss. Clutch itself, OEM 
spec is only 120ish, couple of hours to fix.


>
> My local guy is 25 plus VAT.


Pah, I'd do it myself before I paid that much :-p


-- 
Pete M

Range Rover Vogue SE, Ford Capri (ressurection stalling)
Porsche 911 3.2 (For Sale)

COSOC #5
Scouse Git extraordinaire. Liverpool, Great Britain

Pete M  wrote:


> > Aye, BMW clutch shouldn't be too hard to change, RWD and all that.
> >
> > However, who, in their right mind, pays 50 quid / hour labour?
> 
> No-one, and the clutch in a 525 TDS is a piece of piss. Clutch itself, OEM
> spec is only 120ish, couple of hours to fix.
> 
> >
> > My local guy is 25 plus VAT.
> 
> Pah, I'd do it myself before I paid that much :-p


I think paying someone 25/hour is worth it when you need to get a car in
the air to work on it.
-- 
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

In article , JB  writes


>No , it's a 'doing the job properly' thing.


Ta.

"SteveH"  wrote in message 
news:1gyvsep.lz7b3e1erqgz5N%steve@italiancar.co.uk...

> Pete M  wrote:
>
>> > Aye, BMW clutch shouldn't be too hard to change, RWD and all that.
>> >
>> > However, who, in their right mind, pays 50 quid / hour labour?
>>
>> No-one, and the clutch in a 525 TDS is a piece of piss. Clutch itself, 
>> OEM
>> spec is only 120ish, couple of hours to fix.
>>
>> >
>> > My local guy is 25 plus VAT.
>>
>> Pah, I'd do it myself before I paid that much :-p
>
> I think paying someone 25/hour is worth it when you need to get a car in
> the air to work on it.
> -- 

Yup.
I'd gladly pay 25/hr to use a 4-post lift on some of the nasty jobs I've 
done in the road under a car on stands or ramps!

JB

SteveH (steve@italiancar.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying : 


> However, who, in their right mind, pays 50 quid / hour labour?
> 
> My local guy is 25 plus VAT.


May I be the first to remind you that you live in the arse end of nowhere?

Adrian  wrote:


> SteveH (steve@italiancar.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
> were saying : 
> 
> > However, who, in their right mind, pays 50 quid / hour labour?
> > 
> > My local guy is 25 plus VAT.
> 
> May I be the first to remind you that you live in the arse end of nowhere?


Heh.

Even when I lived in the arse end of the centre of the London commuter
belt, I only paid 25 quid / hour.
-- 
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

SteveH (steve@italiancar.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying : 


>> > However, who, in their right mind, pays 50 quid / hour labour?
>> > 
>> > My local guy is 25 plus VAT.

>> May I be the first to remind you that you live in the arse end of
>> nowhere? 

> Heh.
> 
> Even when I lived in the arse end of the centre of the London commuter
> belt, I only paid 25 quid / hour.


Good for you. But that was MK, IIRC.

It costs my local specialist that just to open the doors, before paying the 
mechanics, consumables etc. And he's in a fairly knackered unit.

The joys of the Chilterns where flats are 400k.

Adrian  wrote:


> >> May I be the first to remind you that you live in the arse end of
> >> nowhere? 
> 
> > Heh.
> > 
> > Even when I lived in the arse end of the centre of the London commuter
> > belt, I only paid 25 quid / hour.
> 
> Good for you. But that was MK, IIRC.


St. Albans.

We moved to MK later, but still used the same bloke for our car.
-- 
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

In article <1gyvqxq.1xsccjw1lpdnmbN%steve@italiancar.co.uk>, 
steve@italiancar.co.uk says...

> My local guy is £25 plus VAT.
> 

Is that Welsh Pounds, or English Pounds?
The Welsh ones are only worth about 50p in the pound against the 
english, and you are supposed to change at the border.

There is a booth on the Severn bridge for that purpose.
-- 
Carl Robson
Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz
Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

Are you sure it's the clutch? If you've got a poor engine mounting that may 
well cause the problem and it'd be a lot cheaper. If you put in a new clutch 
and the engine mounting is at fault then it'll still judder when you've 
finished.

Rob Graham

Sleeker GT Phwoar  wrote:


> In article <1gyvqxq.1xsccjw1lpdnmbN%steve@italiancar.co.uk>, 
> steve@italiancar.co.uk says...
> > My local guy is 25 plus VAT.
> > 
> Is that Welsh Pounds, or English Pounds?
> The Welsh ones are only worth about 50p in the pound against the 
> english, and you are supposed to change at the border.
> 
> There is a booth on the Severn bridge for that purpose.


Heh.
-- 
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

In news:d9ugo0$84d$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com,
Rob graham  decided to enlighten our sheltered 
souls with a rant as follows

> Are you sure it's the clutch? If you've got a poor engine mounting
> that may well cause the problem and it'd be a lot cheaper. If you put
> in a new clutch and the engine mounting is at fault then it'll still
> judder when you've finished.


It's a BMW clutch, they're normally horrendous.


-- 
Pete M

Range Rover Vogue SE, Ford Capri (ressurection stalling)
Porsche 911 3.2 (For Sale)

COSOC #5
Scouse Git extraordinaire. Liverpool, Great Britain

Pete M  wrote:


> In news:d9ugo0$84d$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com,
> Rob graham  decided to enlighten our sheltered
> souls with a rant as follows
> > Are you sure it's the clutch? If you've got a poor engine mounting
> > that may well cause the problem and it'd be a lot cheaper. If you put
> > in a new clutch and the engine mounting is at fault then it'll still
> > judder when you've finished.
> 
> It's a BMW clutch, they're normally horrendous.


I'm sure that's because they should really have a slushbox these days.
-- 
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

"Pete M"  wrote in message 
news:42c2fb81$0$18644$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...

> In news:d9ugo0$84d$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com,
> Rob graham  decided to enlighten our 
> sheltered souls with a rant as follows
>> Are you sure it's the clutch? If you've got a poor engine mounting
>> that may well cause the problem and it'd be a lot cheaper. If you put
>> in a new clutch and the engine mounting is at fault then it'll still
>> judder when you've finished.
>
> It's a BMW clutch, they're normally horrendous.
>


Are you saying that it's not an engine mounting, then?

Rob

"Pete M"  wrote in message 
news:42c2fb81$0$18644$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...

> In news:d9ugo0$84d$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com,
> Rob graham  decided to enlighten our 
> sheltered souls with a rant as follows
>> Are you sure it's the clutch? If you've got a poor engine mounting
>> that may well cause the problem and it'd be a lot cheaper. If you put
>> in a new clutch and the engine mounting is at fault then it'll still
>> judder when you've finished.
>
> It's a BMW clutch, they're normally horrendous.
>

That is pretty much bollocks I'm afraid. I do a fair bit of work on older 
80s and 90s e23/28/32/34s and most of them with manual gearboxes. If you are 
not a complete animal, a genuine clutch should last over 250k miles easily. 
my own e34 has over 352k on the original clutch and it is still fine. I 
service a friends e23 about 3 times a year and it's only on its second 
clutch after 681k miles. most of the of these older motors i lok after have 
well over 400k on them and they are *all* in excellent nick mechanically.
The design and general build quality is better than most makes, at least 
until 1995 anyway.
JB

In news:3igmalFlfbqrU1@individual.net,
JB  decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as 
follows

> "Pete M"  wrote in
> message news:42c2fb81$0$18644$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>> In news:d9ugo0$84d$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com,
>> Rob graham  decided to enlighten our
>> sheltered souls with a rant as follows
>>> Are you sure it's the clutch? If you've got a poor engine mounting
>>> that may well cause the problem and it'd be a lot cheaper. If you
>>> put in a new clutch and the engine mounting is at fault then it'll still
>>> judder when you've finished.
>>
>> It's a BMW clutch, they're normally horrendous.
>>
> That is pretty much bollocks I'm afraid. I do a fair bit of work on
> older 80s and 90s e23/28/32/34s and most of them with manual
> gearboxes. If you are not a complete animal, a genuine clutch should
> last over 250k miles easily. my own e34 has over 352k on the original
> clutch and it is still fine. I service a friends e23 about 3 times a
> year and it's only on its second clutch after 681k miles. most of the
> of these older motors i lok after have well over 400k on them and
> they are *all* in excellent nick mechanically. The design and general
> build quality is better than most makes, at least until 1995 anyway.


Aye, I've only driven around 50 manual BMWs in the last 10 years or so. I've 
so far found around 10 with decent clutches, and two with decent 
gearchanges.

The two with decent gearchanges were both M5s. An E28 and an E39. The Getrag 
dog leg box in my old 323i was ok, but still nowhere near as nice as, for 
example, a Mk2 Escort box.

The last one I drove (Sunday morning this week) was a 175,000 mile 525 TDS 
with a new clutch in. That was actually quite nice - but gutless.

Admittedly, out of the BMW's I've owned - two E34s, two E28s an E30 and an 
E21, the manuals have all had 80k+ on the clutches.

I just find it strange that BMW don't seem able to do a simple clutch or 
gearchange as well as Ford can, then again, Mercedes are awful at manual 
boxes as well, but they at least can get a clutch action that is consistent 
and pleasant to use.

-- 
Pete M

Range Rover Vogue SE, Ford Capri (ressurection stalling)
Porsche 911 3.2 (For Sale)

COSOC #5
Scouse Git extraordinaire. Liverpool, Great Britain

> The two with decent gearchanges were both M5s. An E28 and an E39. The
Getrag
> dog leg box in my old 323i was ok, but still nowhere near as nice as, for
> example, a Mk2 Escort box.


I drove a 530D manual (W reg, whatever E that is...) and the gearchange was
just how it should be - balance of clutch weight and shift weight is so good
that within  a couple of miles you forget you're changing gear. Not like
getting into a fiat...

My Volvo has too much left-right spring on the lever, and the fore-aft throw
is too long although the clutch weight and action is perfect and the
precision is there for good changes, just even though I've driven it over
70k miles it still catches me out how far forwards 3rd gear is and I'll
sometimes catch neutral.

In news:tPOcnXS257G4OV7fSa8jmA@karoo.co.uk,
Tim S Kemp  decided to enlighten our 
sheltered souls with a rant as follows

>> The two with decent gearchanges were both M5s. An E28 and an E39.
>> The Getrag dog leg box in my old 323i was ok, but still nowhere near
>> as nice as, for example, a Mk2 Escort box.
>
> I drove a 530D manual (W reg, whatever E that is...) and the
> gearchange was just how it should be - balance of clutch weight and
> shift weight is so good that within  a couple of miles you forget
> you're changing gear. Not like getting into a fiat...


Must be a personal thing. I like gearchanges to be smooth, precise, quick, 
and easy. I always find BMW ones to be overspung in all the wrong 
directions, notchy, and generally horrible.


>
> My Volvo has too much left-right spring on the lever, and the
> fore-aft throw is too long although the clutch weight and action is
> perfect and the precision is there for good changes, just even though
> I've driven it over 70k miles it still catches me out how far
> forwards 3rd gear is and I'll sometimes catch neutral.


I think the last manual Volvo I drove was a 240, so can't comment on 'em, 
but the 525 TDS I was driving last weekend caught me out a couple of times 
by popping out / not selecting gear. Infuriating it was.

I've never had this problem with any other make of car, although I did once 
drive an Allegro with a box almost as horrible as a BMW one.


-- 
Pete M

Range Rover Vogue SE, Ford Capri (ressurection stalling)
Porsche 911 3.2 (For Sale)

COSOC #5
Scouse Git extraordinaire. Liverpool, Great Britain