I have been told this by an MOT garage but it does not seem right.

If I have a fleet vehicle which I know to be defective e.g. because the
brake lights have failed or the screen wash does not work even though I have
filled it. I can take it wherever the company ask me to ( in this case 60
miles away) to get the repair done.

The vehicle has a current MOT certificate

I know before I start the journey that I am committing moving traffic
offences but so long as I have reported the matter to the fleet manager they
are responsible not me

Any comments?

Tony

TMC (anon@anon.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying
: 


> If I have a fleet vehicle which I know to be defective e.g. because
> the brake lights have failed or the screen wash does not work even
> though I have filled it. I can take it wherever the company ask me to
> ( in this case 60 miles away) to get the repair done.

> I know before I start the journey that I am committing moving traffic
> offences but so long as I have reported the matter to the fleet
> manager they are responsible not me


Bollocks.

If you're driving it, you're carrying the can. I'm sure you could pass the 
fine over, but if it's a points offence (tyres, say), it's your licence.

"TMC"  wrote in message
news:d9pv3u$bag$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

> I have been told this by an MOT garage but it does not seem right.
>
> If I have a fleet vehicle which I know to be defective e.g. because the
> brake lights have failed or the screen wash does not work even though I
have
> filled it. I can take it wherever the company ask me to ( in this case 60
> miles away) to get the repair done.
>
> The vehicle has a current MOT certificate
>
> I know before I start the journey that I am committing moving traffic
> offences but so long as I have reported the matter to the fleet manager
they
> are responsible not me
>
> Any comments?
>
> Tony
>


its ** your ** responsibility to ensure the vehicle is roadworthy, if you
feel its not then you shouldn't drive it !

"TMC"  wrote in message
news:d9pv3u$bag$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

> I have been told this by an MOT garage but it does not seem right.
>
> If I have a fleet vehicle which I know to be defective e.g. because the
> brake lights have failed or the screen wash does not work even though I
have
> filled it. I can take it wherever the company ask me to ( in this case 60
> miles away) to get the repair done.
>
> The vehicle has a current MOT certificate
>
> I know before I start the journey that I am committing moving traffic
> offences but so long as I have reported the matter to the fleet manager
they
> are responsible not me
>
> Any comments?
>
> Tony
>

 I would say ok about the washers, particularly in this weather, but the
brake lights make it VOR. Put a defect notice in writing and don't drive it.

Steve

TMC wrote:

> I have been told this by an MOT garage but it does not seem right.
> 
> If I have a fleet vehicle which I know to be defective e.g. because the
> brake lights have failed or the screen wash does not work even though I have
> filled it. I can take it wherever the company ask me to ( in this case 60
> miles away) to get the repair done.
> 
> The vehicle has a current MOT certificate
> 
> I know before I start the journey that I am committing moving traffic
> offences but so long as I have reported the matter to the fleet manager they
> are responsible not me
> 
> Any comments?
> 


It's your problem.

You can sometimes use this to your advantage though.

Example: friend who runs a company car went into a Kwik-Fit. He knows 
another friend that works there. Lease company would only authorise some 
particular Bridgestone tyre. Friend at Kwik-Fit talks to lease/fleet co. 
and says the current tyres are in a really bad state (which was true) 
and we can not let car out like that, We only have these (double the 
price) tyres in stock. Lease company have no choice but to approve and 
so friend now has a full 4 set of P Zero's.

Lovely :-)

The message <d9pv3u$bag$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
from "TMC"  contains these words:


> I know before I start the journey that I am committing moving traffic
> offences but so long as I have reported the matter to the fleet manager they
> are responsible not me


The driver is responsible at all times for the condition of the vehicle.

-- 
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

In message <d9pv3u$bag$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, TMC 
 writes

>I have been told this by an MOT garage but it does not seem right.
>
>If I have a fleet vehicle which I know to be defective e.g. because the
>brake lights have failed or the screen wash does not work even though I have
>filled it. I can take it wherever the company ask me to ( in this case 60
>miles away) to get the repair done.
>
>The vehicle has a current MOT certificate
>
>I know before I start the journey that I am committing moving traffic
>offences but so long as I have reported the matter to the fleet manager they
>are responsible not me
>
>Any comments?


If you are stopped with an endorsable fault, you'll get the points, not 
them. They should also consider their legal liability should the defect 
lead to you becoming injured. They may leave themselves open to being 
sued by you, and they may also be prosecuted by the HSE.

-- 
Steve Walker

Steve Walker (steve@otolith.demon.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying : 


> They should also consider their legal liability should the
> defect lead to you becoming injured. They may leave themselves open to
> being sued by you, and they may also be prosecuted by the HSE.


Indeed. If they're *ADAMANT* about this, you have to start questioning 
whether they're people you want to work for. If they'll shaft you on this, 
what other corners are they cutting that could end up in tears?

"TMC"  wrote in message 
news:d9pv3u$bag$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

>I have been told this by an MOT garage but it does not seem right.
>
> If I have a fleet vehicle which I know to be defective e.g. because the
> brake lights have failed or the screen wash does not work even though I 
> have
> filled it. I can take it wherever the company ask me to ( in this case 60
> miles away) to get the repair done.
>
> The vehicle has a current MOT certificate
>
> I know before I start the journey that I am committing moving traffic
> offences but so long as I have reported the matter to the fleet manager 
> they
> are responsible not me
>
> Any comments?
>
> Tony


As others have said, it is the drivers responsibility for ensuring the 
vehicle is in a roadworthy condition before setting off on any journey.
There is no exclusion for fleet vehicles.
I work for a fleet company, and have seen several driver's who've recieved 
penalty points for vehicle defects, and the first thing they try and do is 
blame the workshop. And the first thing the workshop does, is highlight the 
relevant section off the drivers handbook, at which point the drivers 
normally go very quiet.

Obviously a certain amount off common sense is required. If the defects are 
minor (bulbs, or washers not working), then refusing to drive probably isn't 
in your best interest (from experience, any driver doing this will be 
brought to the attention off their manager). However, if the defects are 
serious (illegal tyres, wipers not working) then there is no doubt that the 
vehicle should be recovered.

It's the driver who is responsible. That's you.

"TMC"  wrote in message 
news:d9pv3u$bag$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

>I have been told this by an MOT garage but it does not seem right.
>
> If I have a fleet vehicle which I know to be defective e.g. because the
> brake lights have failed or the screen wash does not work even though I 
> have
> filled it. I can take it wherever the company ask me to ( in this case 60
> miles away) to get the repair done.
>
> The vehicle has a current MOT certificate
>
> I know before I start the journey that I am committing moving traffic
> offences but so long as I have reported the matter to the fleet manager 
> they
> are responsible not me
>
> Any comments?
>
> Tony
>
> 

D'yer know - I've never seen such a unanimous answer to a question!

-- 
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

Moray Cuthill wrote:

> "TMC"  wrote in message
> news:d9pv3u$bag$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>> I have been told this by an MOT garage but it does not seem right.
>>
>> If I have a fleet vehicle which I know to be defective e.g. because
>> the brake lights have failed or the screen wash does not work even
>> though I have
>> filled it. I can take it wherever the company ask me to ( in this
>> case 60 miles away) to get the repair done.
>>
>> The vehicle has a current MOT certificate
>>
>> I know before I start the journey that I am committing moving traffic
>> offences but so long as I have reported the matter to the fleet
>> manager they
>> are responsible not me
>>
>> Any comments?
>>
>> Tony
>
> As others have said, it is the drivers responsibility for ensuring the
> vehicle is in a roadworthy condition before setting off on any
> journey. There is no exclusion for fleet vehicles.
> I work for a fleet company, and have seen several driver's who've
> recieved penalty points for vehicle defects, and the first thing they
> try and do is blame the workshop. And the first thing the workshop
> does, is highlight the relevant section off the drivers handbook, at
> which point the drivers normally go very quiet.

Moray,

> Obviously a certain amount off common sense is required. If the
> defects are minor (bulbs, or washers not working), then refusing to
> drive probably isn't in your best interest


What a load of cobblers no "common sense is required".  An employer cannot
force an employee to drive a vehicle that is classed as defective under the
current legislation  and a criminal offence could be commited on the
employers part if they do.

I have 'won' several battles using that argument over many years of driving
company vehicles.


> (from experience, anydriver doing this will be brought to the attention
off their
> manager).


Great, then when the driver asks the manager to drive the vehicle to the
local repair depot and the manager refuses because he would be breaking the
law...!  I have also done that as well.

However, if the defects are serious (illegal tyres, wipers

> not working) then there is no doubt that the vehicle should be
> recovered.


Whatever the defect, if it breaks the current roadworthiness legislation,
then repairs should be carried out on site by a competent person or the
vehicle recovered to the repair depot - to reiterate, the employee cannot be
legally forced to drive a defective vehicle.

Brian G

>> As others have said, it is the drivers responsibility for ensuring the
>> vehicle is in a roadworthy condition before setting off on any
>> journey. There is no exclusion for fleet vehicles.
>> I work for a fleet company, and have seen several driver's who've
>> recieved penalty points for vehicle defects, and the first thing they
>> try and do is blame the workshop. And the first thing the workshop
>> does, is highlight the relevant section off the drivers handbook, at
>> which point the drivers normally go very quiet.
>
> Moray,
>
>> Obviously a certain amount off common sense is required. If the
>> defects are minor (bulbs, or washers not working), then refusing to
>> drive probably isn't in your best interest
>
> What a load of cobblers no "common sense is required".  An employer cannot
> force an employee to drive a vehicle that is classed as defective under 
> the
> current legislation  and a criminal offence could be commited on the
> employers part if they do.


So you would refuse to drive the vehicle just because there was one bulb not 
working?
And if it was your own vehicle, you would abandon it at the side off the 
road until you'd replaced that bulb?



> I have 'won' several battles using that argument over many years of 
> driving
> company vehicles.



No doubt you have.


>> (from experience, anydriver doing this will be brought to the attention
> off their
>> manager).
>
> Great, then when the driver asks the manager to drive the vehicle to the
> local repair depot and the manager refuses because he would be breaking 
> the
> law...!  I have also done that as well.


This is more in an unofficial manner. Refusing to drive a vehicle because 
off a minor defect tends to lead to such things being 'noted' against your 
record. Off course these 'notes' are unofficial (and illegal under current 
legislation), but it does happen.



> However, if the defects are serious (illegal tyres, wipers
>> not working) then there is no doubt that the vehicle should be
>> recovered.
>
> Whatever the defect, if it breaks the current roadworthiness legislation,
> then repairs should be carried out on site by a competent person or the
> vehicle recovered to the repair depot - to reiterate, the employee cannot 
> be
> legally forced to drive a defective vehicle.


what was my first comment?

"TMC"  wrote in message 
news:d9pv3u$bag$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

>
> I have been told this by an MOT garage but it does not seem right.
>
> If I have a fleet vehicle which I know to be defective e.g. because the
> brake lights have failed or the screen wash does not work even though I 
> have
> filled it. I can take it wherever the company ask me to ( in this case 60
> miles away) to get the repair done.
>
> The vehicle has a current MOT certificate
>
> I know before I start the journey that I am committing moving traffic
> offences but so long as I have reported the matter to the fleet manager 
> they
> are responsible not me
>
> Any comments?


I have similar situation. H&S at work 1974 Act - you have a duty to report
safety concerns and not use chemicals, machines, equipment etc if in your
reasonable judgement it's unsafe.

Also risk assessment. You have obviously decide it's unsafe, DON'T DRIVE it.
If it ever went to court you be screwed.

Typical management.

Nick

(not a manager)

It depends on the fleet on their attitutude but virtually all will let
you nominate a repairer if you ask them.

Most try and steer work to the recommended network as they can screw
them on the price but they will consider others.

We have this with Lex who will try and send you 20 miles but agree
straight away if you suggest the dealer at the end of the road!

Alan

In article ,
   Moray Cuthill  wrote:

> So you would refuse to drive the vehicle just because there was one bulb
> not working? 

> And if it was your own vehicle, you would abandon it at
> the side off the road until you'd replaced that bulb?


Anyone with sense carries spares. Halfords do a kit for most cars with a
self adhesive strip on the box so you can stick it somewhere convenient.
;-)

-- 
*If horrific means to make horrible, does terrific mean to make terrible? 

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

> We have this with Lex who will try and send you 20 miles but agree
> straight away if you suggest the dealer at the end of the road!
>
> Alan
>

In my experience, Lex are one of the better lease companies.  Much better 
than any of the other three my company has used.